Not By Works

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DoY

Member
Dec 22, 2019
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Your job then is to better understand and not follow liars who seek to malign the Gospel.

And we all still sin and it has nothing to do with it being okay,... just a slanderous position some like to make.
Yes, it sure is unfortunate. Sadly many new believers are deceived.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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When that becomes your chosen lifestyle??? Of course you are bound for hell. You have esentiallly spat upon the Atonement which cost my dear Lord so much. This attitude is very disturbing. Am I the only one here that finds this lack of appreciation for God's grace disturbing?

Hebrews 10
10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some [is]; but exhorting [one another]: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

This is crystal clear, folks. This does not contradict Grace. It upholds it to the high place that it belongs. Why do people want to see if they can get away with crapping all over God's marvelous and wonderful grace???
Paul wasn’t talking about lifestyle, but the act of adultery is the work of the flesh. We all sin including you. When you sin are you spitting on God’s atonement? Lack of appreciation? By no means! I have the freedom to walk after the Spirit now that I’m saved, but the flesh is always there as a burden.

Btw, Hebrews is written to....oh yeah, the HEBREWS in the last days. It’s not a doctrinal book for the Church. Every time we sin, we sin willfully.
 

DoY

Member
Dec 22, 2019
31
27
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So state your position clearly... does willful sin cause the loss of salvation?
Do you think a believer who might start out with great faith and zeal has the potential to "fall away" (not because God is revoking salvation), but because of the person's free will to embark on a slippery slope of sin, disobedience, and estrangement from Him?
 
Dec 28, 2016
8,869
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When that becomes your chosen lifestyle??? Of course you are bound for hell. You have esentiallly spat upon the Atonement which cost my dear Lord so much. This attitude is very disturbing. Am I the only one here that finds this lack of appreciation for God's grace disturbing?

Hebrews 10
10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some [is]; but exhorting [one another]: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

This is crystal clear, folks. This does not contradict Grace. It upholds it to the high place that it belongs. Why do people want to see if they can get away with crapping all over God's marvelous and wonderful grace???
You've not sinned by willing to sin since salvation? It's only been accidental?

By the way, the phrase "by which he was sanctified" is referencing Christ, not men.
 

Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
1,863
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Put to death those thoughts by the grace He has given us.
did you calculate in being a man? how can a man stop something that is natural to him? if a man isnt attracted to women there are only two options:

1. he is one of those Jesus says are born eunuchs
2. he is g*y.

i hope its the first.
 

EleventhHour

Well-known member
Nov 11, 2019
7,480
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Do you think a believer who might start out with great faith and zeal has the potential to "fall away" (not because God is revoking salvation), but because of the person's free will to embark on a slippery slope of sin, disobedience, and estrangement from Him?
Okay friend... free will did not save us nor does it unsave us.

Belief is not an act of the will.

And on the other point which sin(s) committed by the believer is not paid for by Jesus... I make no apologies for Grace
 

Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
2,377
466
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So state your position clearly... does willful sin cause the loss of salvation?
Lets look at the Amplified version of the bible shall we:

Hebrews 10
26 For if we go on willfully and deliberately sinning after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice [to atone] for our sins [that is, no further offering to anticipate], 27 but a kind of awful and terrifying expectation of [divine] judgment and the fury of a fire and burning wrath which will consume the adversaries [those who put themselves in opposition to God]. 28 Anyone who has ignored and set aside the Law of Moses is put to death without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much greater punishment do you think he will deserve who has rejected and trampled under foot the Son of God, and has considered unclean and common the blood of the covenant that [d]sanctified him, and has insulted the Spirit of grace [who imparts the unmerited favor and blessing of God]? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine [retribution and the deliverance of justice rest with Me], I will repay [the wrongdoer].” And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a fearful and terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God [incurring His judgment and wrath].

What does the EHT (EleventhHour Translation) of the bible say?
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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So basically rape and murder a different person everyday, and at the judgement seat your mansion is not as fancy?
And I think this part of the issue concerning the differences concerning OSAS/NOSAS.

I'm not saying you are accusing the OSAS based on the question above but the truth is that is what NOSAS do. Focus on the ridiculous things.

Yet we know and find in scripture

1 Corinthians 6:9-11
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

Galatians 5:19-21
Results of the Sinful Nature
19 When you follow the desires of your sinful nature, the results are very clear: sexual immorality, impurity, lustful pleasures,20 idolatry, sorcery, hostility, quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissension, division,21 envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and other sins like these. Let me tell you again, as I have before, that anyone living that sort of life will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

2 Corinthians 12:20
20 For I am afraid that when I come I won’t like what I find, and you won’t like my response. I am afraid that I will find quarreling, jealousy, anger, selfishness, slander, gossip, arrogance, and disorderly behavior.

James 1:26-27
26 If you claim to be religious but don’t control your tongue, you are fooling yourself, and your religion is worthless. 27 Pure and genuine religion in the sight of God the Father means caring for orphans and widows in their distress and refusing to let the world corrupt you.

Leviticus 19:16
16 “Do not spread slanderous gossip among your people.
“Do not stand idly by when your neighbor’s life is threatened. I am the Lord.

So there is much more than the big guns that bought out.

Slander, gossip, arguing, selfishness etc.

Why not mention those as well?

But we know Paul said "And such were some of you, you were washed and sanctified and justified in the name of the Lord Jesus"

By inference I would say that he is saying "That is what you were, but now you should be different, you now have the spirit of God in you, now walk in it"

He addressed this also in Romans 5-6.
Grace is not a license to sin.

So I find it upsetting that you ask the question you did.
Probably because I find accusing in that we say it's ok based on ES.

The church is quick to discipline on the big things but not the other things that Paul addressed.
 

Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
2,377
466
83
did you calculate in being a man? how can a man stop something that is natural to him? if a man isnt attracted to women there are only two options:

1. he is one of those Jesus says are born eunuchs
2. he is g*y.


i hope its the first.
How about this:

Romans 12
12 I beseech[a] you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your [b]reasonable service. 2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
10,341
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How about this:

Romans 12
12 I beseech[a] you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your [b]reasonable service. 2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
That’s an awesome passage, but what about those who don’t renew their minds? What about those who have no Bible, no church, or discipleship at all?
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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If only OSAS proponents would make that clear from the start - that good works/obedience flow from gratitude and love. Unfortunately many don't and now we have this perverse complacency in the church, and a false belief that continued sin is ok.
Maybe if the NOSAS would make it clear that works do not save us and agree that works are out of love and also not accuse the OSAS that we teach it's ok to sin all you want, commit murder/rape/adultery and use the grace of God to sin.

Then maybe some harmony and discussion would take place with no accusations.

It works on both sides of the coin.

Please don't forget that.
 

DoY

Member
Dec 22, 2019
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Maybe if the NOSAS would make it clear that works do not save us and agree that works are out of love and also not accuse the OSAS that we teach it's ok to sin all you want, commit murder/rape/adultery and use the grace of God to sin.

Then maybe some harmony and discussion would take place with no accusations.

It works on both sides of the coin.

Please don't forget that.
I totally agree. It has to be a complete message, not just partial, causing much confusion, complacency and permission to sin in new believers.
 

Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
2,377
466
83
Paul wasn’t talking about lifestyle, but the act of adultery is the work of the flesh. We all sin including you. When you sin are you spitting on God’s atonement? Lack of appreciation? By no means! I have the freedom to walk after the Spirit now that I’m saved, but the flesh is always there as a burden.

Btw, Hebrews is written to....oh yeah, the HEBREWS in the last days. It’s not a doctrinal book for the Church. Every time we sin, we sin willfully.
Hebrews is written by Paul in Italy to the Church back in Jerusalem.
 

Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
2,377
466
83
That’s an awesome passage, but what about those who don’t renew their minds? What about those who have no Bible, no church, or discipleship at all?
Then they have the Holy Spirit. For He will lead them into all truth.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
3,052
2,653
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So state your position clearly... does willful sin cause the loss of salvation?
Yes. And it must be repented of, lest it become a lifestlyle and the heart become hardened to the point where the conscience is seared as with a hot iron. 'Willful' is the keyword. Never let the sun go down upon your wrath.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
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Yes. And it must be repented of, lest it become a lifestlyle and the heart become hardened to the point where the conscience is seared as with a hot iron. 'Willful' is the keyword. Never let the sun go down upon your wrath.
So someone becomes a born again child of God, commits willful sin, loses their salvation, repents, and then get's their salvation back?
 

EleventhHour

Well-known member
Nov 11, 2019
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Yes. And it must be repented of, lest it become a lifestlyle and the heart become hardened to the point where the conscience is seared as with a hot iron. 'Willful' is the keyword. Never let the sun go down upon your wrath.
Repent (metanoia) means "change of mind, turn from one view of the mind to another" it is not only a biblical word it is found in other Greek writings.

Well, certainly we must walk in the Spirit, so that grace can have its influence in our lives... I am pretty sure we cannot overcome sin by sheer will power.... that is finishing in the flesh what was started in the Spirit.
 

EleventhHour

Well-known member
Nov 11, 2019
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I totally agree. It has to be a complete message, not just partial, causing much confusion, complacency and permission to sin in new believers.
No one needs permission/license to sin.
 

EleventhHour

Well-known member
Nov 11, 2019
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Maybe if the NOSAS would make it clear that works do not save us and agree that works are out of love and also not accuse the OSAS that we teach it's ok to sin all you want, commit murder/rape/adultery and use the grace of God to sin.

Then maybe some harmony and discussion would take place with no accusations.

It works on both sides of the coin.

Please don't forget that.
Then they would have no case and they know it... part of the problem when the Gospel is not understood.