Not By Works

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D

Discern

Banned
#123,601
Dec 6, 2019
1,206
691
113
#123,601
Discern said:
Almost ANY OSAS proponent would say YES. I can’t think of one reputable osas teacher that would say no. Can you?
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Are people being so defensive and guarded that not even a point that CH Spurgeon and other OSAS teachers would agree with is creating such a controversy?
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#123,602
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
#123,602
Discern said:
Ok, how about lying? If I am a habitual liar, might I be deceived about thinking I’m a Christian? Is it POSSIBLE? Not talking about positively stating it.
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The bible states that all men are liars......we need to get past sin being an issue.....the debt has been paid and is settled.....the only bearing it has is upon fellowship.....a son by birth will always be a son by birth....I have a son...NOTHING will ever change that...sometimes he peeves me off by disobedience...IT temporarily breaks our fellowship, but does not change the fact he is my son by birth and will always remain my son by birth....NOR would I EVER disown him because of being angry with him because I love his as my son....and that CANNOT even be compared to GOD, whose LOVE transcends any and all love we would have toward a physical child.....it also SURPASSES our ability to comprehend fully..........

SIN is not the issue......even with LOST men it is not the issue....FAITH is the issue.......GOD dealt with sin at the cross....and it states clearly....the sins of the WHOLE world were dealt with at the cross........
 
D

Discern

Banned
#123,603
Dec 6, 2019
1,206
691
113
#123,603
dcontroversal said:
The bible states that all men are liars......we need to get past sin being an issue.....the debt has been paid and is settled.....the only bearing it has is upon fellowship.....a son by birth will always be a son by birth....I have a son...NOTHING will ever change that...sometimes he peeves me off by disobedience...IT temporarily breaks our fellowship, but does not change the fact he is my son by birth and will always remain my son by birth....NOR would I EVER disown him because of being angry with him because I love his as my son....and that CANNOT even be compared to GOD, whose LOVE transcends any and all love we would have toward a physical child.....it also SURPASSES our ability to comprehend fully..........

SIN is not the issue......even with LOST men it is not the issue....FAITH is the issue.......GOD dealt with sin at the cross....and it states clearly....the sins of the WHOLE world were dealt with at the cross........
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Is this what the apostles taught? That sin in a professing Christians life is not an issue? I thought we were at the very least to keep ourselves from idols
 
D

Discern

Banned
#123,604
Dec 6, 2019
1,206
691
113
#123,604
dcontroversal said:
The bible states that all men are liars......we need to get past sin being an issue.....the debt has been paid and is settled.....the only bearing it has is upon fellowship.....a son by birth will always be a son by birth....I have a son...NOTHING will ever change that...sometimes he peeves me off by disobedience...IT temporarily breaks our fellowship, but does not change the fact he is my son by birth and will always remain my son by birth....NOR would I EVER disown him because of being angry with him because I love his as my son....and that CANNOT even be compared to GOD, whose LOVE transcends any and all love we would have toward a physical child.....it also SURPASSES our ability to comprehend fully..........

SIN is not the issue......even with LOST men it is not the issue....FAITH is the issue.......GOD dealt with sin at the cross....and it states clearly....the sins of the WHOLE world were dealt with at the cross........
Click to expand...
And a person who has never been saved has not had his sins covered and is not a child. So your responses do not address the question. I did not ask if it was possible I lost my salvation. I asked if it was possible I was never saved

I have to wonder why this question is so difficult for some folks
 
VCO

VCO

Senior Member
#123,605
Oct 14, 2013
11,972
4,587
113
#123,605
oyster67 said:
Ok. Calvinism is a naughty word to you. I did not know. I am so sorry. Please forgive.
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No, that is not it, I have hear arguments about Calvinist vs Armenians ALL MY LIFE. BITTER, NAME CALLING, ARGUMENTS. I have been an evangelical believing Christian since about late in 1978 on. Like I said, most evangelicals only believe 3 of the 5 points of Calvinism, YET Armenians insist I am a Calvinist, and True Calvinist only want you if you believe in all 5 points. My first Church change after I was Born Again, was going from a Lutheran Church Missouri Synod, to Evangelical Free Church. WHAT A DIFFERENCE. The Lutherans only had 10 minute Sermons, and NOW THEY FEED ME SPIRITUAL FOOD FOR 45 - 60 minutes. We moved a lot, so I have attended had a WIDE VARIETY of evangelical Churches, and NONE OF THEM TAUGHT You can receive Jesus and sin all you want to, because your Still Saved, NONE. We teach that IF you Truly LOVE the LORD, you will want to Obey HIM out of Agape LOVE, that HE poured into our Hearts Rom. 5:5. I have heard about Churches that had a bad pastor, that taught sin does not count, but they are Few and Far in between.

We evangelicals are the overwhelming number of Churches that Teach OSAS. WE TEACH IF SIN DOMINATES YOUR LIFE, You were Never Born Again. If you do not improve your walk with the LORD as you mature spiritually, you have proven you are not yet born again. No a Christian is not SINLESS, but as you Mature Spiritually you will sin less, and less, and less. And when you fail and stumble into sin, you will automatically Confess it to the GOD, and get right back up living the way HE would want you to live.

I am sorry about sounding upset, but it has just been one too many times that I was thought to be Calvinists, when I am not. To tell you the truth, I hate labels, and this way they cannot call me a Label, they can just call me a Christian, as I attend a non-denominational Community Bible Teaching Church.

We have had a couple of other guys that think they do not sin. So I will take them to these two Scriptures:

Ecclesiastes 7:20 (NKJV)
20 For there is not a just man on earth who does good And does not sin.

1 Peter 2:13-17 (NKJV)
13 Therefore submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake, whether to the king as supreme,
14 or to governors, as to those who are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and for the praise of those who do good.
15 For this is the will of God, that by doing good you may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men--
16 as free, yet not using liberty as a cloak for vice, but as bondservants of God.
17 Honor all people. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king. [For Americans, that would be President Donald Trump.]

1579577922583.jpeg

That means, if you exceed the posted speed limit,
by one mph., you are in Sin. Yes, I usually recommend
they study more of ALL GOD considers Sin.
 
D

Discern

Banned
#123,606
Dec 6, 2019
1,206
691
113
#123,606
123,537 is the biblical answer.

A. That such a person MAY have never been saved is a no brainer

B. That if I am living in a state of deliberate, willful, and habitual sin, I may have deceived and may be deceiving myself is also clear

Very simple
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#123,607
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
#123,607
Discern said:
And a person who has never been saved has not had his sins covered and is not a child. So your responses do not address the question. I did not ask if it was possible I lost my salvation. I asked if it was possible I was never saved

I have to wonder why this question is so difficult for some folks
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I did answer it.......and my post stands...........sin is not the issue....FAITH is the issue.....either your sin has been paid or you are still dead in it....

quote and explain why the HOLY SPIRIT convinces of SIN <----BECAUSE THEY BELIEVE NOT IN ME....and do me a favour....DO NOT EVER put words in my mouth again that I did not say.....EVER! Because that makes you as bad as these deceivers that ADD or embellish what we say.

THIS---->>>>Is this what the apostles taught? That sin in a professing Christians life is not an issue?
 
D

Discern

Banned
#123,608
Dec 6, 2019
1,206
691
113
#123,608
dcontroversal said:
I did answer it.......and my post stands...........sin is not the issue....FAITH is the issue.....either your sin has been paid or you are still dead in it....

quote and explain why the HOLY SPIRIT convinces of SIN <----BECAUSE THEY BELIEVE NOT IN ME....and do me a favour....DO NOT EVER put words in my mouth again that I did not say.....EVER! Because that makes you as bad as these deceivers that ADD or embellish what we say.

THIS---->>>>Is this what the apostles taught? That sin in a professing

Christians life is not an issue?
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You said we need to get past sin being an issue. First sentence of post. Did not put words in your mouth
 
D

Discern

Banned
#123,609
Dec 6, 2019
1,206
691
113
#123,609
dcontroversal said:
The bible states that all men are liars......we need to get past sin being an issue.....the debt has been paid and is settled.....the only bearing it has is upon fellowship.....a son by birth will always be a son by birth....I have a son...NOTHING will ever change that...sometimes he peeves me off by disobedience...IT temporarily breaks our fellowship, but does not change the fact he is my son by birth and will always remain my son by birth....NOR would I EVER disown him because of being angry with him because I love his as my son....and that CANNOT even be compared to GOD, whose LOVE transcends any and all love we would have toward a physical child.....it also SURPASSES our ability to comprehend fully..........
SIN is not the issue......even with LOST men it is not the issue....FAITH is the issue.......GOD dealt with sin at the cross....and it states clearly....the sins of the WHOLE world were dealt with at the cross........
Click to expand...
I did not put words in your mouth.
 
D

Discern

Banned
#123,610
Dec 6, 2019
1,206
691
113
#123,610
dcontroversal said:
I did answer it.......and my post stands...........sin is not the issue....FAITH is the issue.....either your sin has been paid or you are still dead in it....

quote and explain why the HOLY SPIRIT convinces of SIN <----BECAUSE THEY BELIEVE NOT IN ME....and do me a favour....DO NOT EVER put words in my mouth again that I did not say.....EVER! Because that makes you as bad as these deceivers that ADD or embellish what we say.

THIS---->>>>Is this what the apostles taught? That sin in a professing Christians life is not an issue?
Click to expand...
If you weren't so defensive, you could have just said yes, it is possible that such a person was never saved. And you could have also said if they had been/were saved, they would be eternally secure. You could have just answered the question without a debate, which was my request. But you chose to debate something that was clear, cut and dry, and did not need to be debated.

Simple as pie, easy peasy.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#123,612
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
#123,612
Discern said:
If you weren't so defensive, you could have just said yes, it is possible that such a person was never saved. And you could have said if they had been saved, they would be eternally secure. You could have just answered the question without a debate, which was my request. But you chose to debate something that was clear, cut and dry, and did not need to be debated.

Simple as pie, easy peasy.
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If you could read you would see I did say that....but hey....let those true colours come out
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#123,613
#123,613
Discern said:
Rephrase. If I walk in a lifestyle of deliberate, willful, and habitual darkness, is it possible I was never saved?

Not just struggling with sin, we all do that. Habitual, deliberate, lifestyle of darkness
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What does the scripture state to do with such person .....does it tells us to sit around and hypothesize????
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#123,616
#123,616
Discern said:
If you weren't so defensive, you could have just said yes, it is possible that such a person was never saved. And you could have also said if they had been/were saved, they would be eternally secure. You could have just answered the question without a debate, which was my request. But you chose to debate something that was clear, cut and dry, and did not need to be debated.

Simple as pie, easy peasy.
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If you want a Y/N then ask the right question... which you did not.

I like how people set up the faulty questions and then blame the person who responds for not answering how they wanted.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#123,617
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
#123,617
Discern said:
I do not see where you answered the FIRST part of the question. If you did, I will apologize. I will go back and read
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Moot because of this.....

David loved the Lord, was a man after God's own heart, chosen by GOD, writes most Psalms, and yet committed a premeditate murder to cover up adultery and a a child....Under the law he should have been stoned to death yet GOD shows mercy and a big picture of JESUS in the fact that the INNOCENT son of DAVID took his place in DEATH <---Just as JESUS does......

YET he never lost salvation (the joy of salvation yes)
He suffered rebellion in his house
He suffered the sword in his house all the days of his life
He suffered physically with disease

ALL chastening of the LORD........

HAVE mercy on me thou SON of DAVID <---cried the old man

SALVATION is eternally secure, we cannot lose it, forfeit it, give it away.........

and yes, both are possible <---IE.....either he was never saved or he is saved and wayward yet eternally secure in his position as a son
 
D

Discern

Banned
#123,619
Dec 6, 2019
1,206
691
113
#123,619
dcontroversal said:
Moot because of this.....

David loved the Lord, was a man after God's own heart, chosen by GOD, writes most Psalms, and yet committed a premeditate murder to cover up adultery and a a child....Under the law he should have been stoned to death yet GOD shows mercy and a big picture of JESUS in the fact that the INNOCENT son of DAVID took his place in DEATH <---Just as JESUS does......

YET he never lost salvation (the joy of salvation yes)
He suffered rebellion in his house
He suffered the sword in his house all the days of his life
He suffered physically with disease

ALL chastening of the LORD........

HAVE mercy on me thou SON of DAVID <---cried the old man

SALVATION is eternally secure, we cannot lose it, forfeit it, give it away.........

and yes, both are possible <---IE.....either he was never saved or he is saved and wayward yet eternally secure in his position as a son
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Yes, you did say it, so I apologize for not seeing this, and therefore I was mistaken. You might want to withhold judgement about my "true colors", realizing that errors are sometimes made. I would have simply stated that I did say that, given the post number, and not have made personal attacks about the other person's character. Not everyone is the boogeyman Dcontroversal.

You answered the question, so nothing to debate.
 
D

Discern

Banned
#123,620
Dec 6, 2019
1,206
691
113
#123,620
dcontroversal said:
Moot because of this.....

David loved the Lord, was a man after God's own heart, chosen by GOD, writes most Psalms, and yet committed a premeditate murder to cover up adultery and a a child....Under the law he should have been stoned to death yet GOD shows mercy and a big picture of JESUS in the fact that the INNOCENT son of DAVID took his place in DEATH <---Just as JESUS does......

YET he never lost salvation (the joy of salvation yes)
He suffered rebellion in his house
He suffered the sword in his house all the days of his life
He suffered physically with disease

ALL chastening of the LORD........

HAVE mercy on me thou SON of DAVID <---cried the old man

SALVATION is eternally secure, we cannot lose it, forfeit it, give it away.........

and yes, both are possible <---IE.....either he was never saved or he is saved and wayward yet eternally secure in his position as a son
Click to expand...
I had already searched for this and found it. see my response above.
 
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