Not By Works

dcontroversal · Feb 7, 2020

What i am telling you is simple....the word of or from which come from the same Greek word INDICATE source.........

Jesus is the originator of faith the author, the beginner, the finisher, the one that completes it....and HE as GOD has dealt each man a MEASURE of faith......<----think about that.....

A measure NOT the whole......

FROM faith to faith it is written the just shall live BY FAITH.......

NOW use some logical deductions......

We have been given a MEASURE of faith....the faith that was BEGUN by Christ as the AUTHOR of faith......JESUS is the SOURCE of the MEASURE we have been given...

LIKE a WELL....we DRAW from a WELL and DRINK water FROM the WELL...but NOT the well itself.........!

lightbearer · Feb 7, 2020

John146 said:

Amen! For we are dead nevertheless we live yet not us but Christ liveth in us and the LIFE we now LIVE in the flesh we live by the FAITH of CHRIST.

dcontroversal · Feb 7, 2020

lightbearer said:

Listen Judaizer....nothing you say lightbar has any bearing and or truth.......and the fact you yank this out of the context given to try and mouth me because I oppose the other Jesus devaluer just as you do means nothing pal....neither he or you have the truth...so.....crawl back to your own thread where you can devalue JESUS, lift yourself and pat yourself on the back for helping JESUS do what he said he would do

John146 · Feb 7, 2020

dcontroversal said:

Yes, but under the OT a man lived by his own faith.

Habakkuk 2:4 Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.

lightbearer · Feb 7, 2020

dcontroversal said:

Listen Judaizer....nothing you say lightbar has any bearing and or truth.......and the fact you yank this out of the context given to try and mouth me because I oppose the other Jesus devaluer just as you do means nothing pal....neither he or you have the truth...so.....crawl back to your own thread where you can devalue JESUS, lift yourself and pat yourself on the back for helping JESUS do what he said he would do

Not I but Christ.

lightbearer · Feb 7, 2020

dcontroversal said:

Incontinent.
2Tim 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
2Tim 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
2Tim 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Tim 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

lightbearer · Feb 7, 2020

eternally-gratefull said:

My Gospel? God's....
It is a Gift.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that (faith) not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus UNTO good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
(Eph 2:8-10 KJV)

dcontroversal · Feb 7, 2020

John146 said:

We are not in the OT John...........we are under the new covenant ratified by the death of Christ.....and you are still making the word of mean more than it means......I.E. SOURCE.

dcontroversal · Feb 7, 2020

lightbearer said:

You say that, but do not believe it based upon past thins I have seen you say....nice try pal...not going to help your cause or case.....

dcontroversal · Feb 7, 2020

lightbearer said:

More out of context application....par for the course for a Judaizer....not helping your cause or case

John146 · Feb 7, 2020

dcontroversal said:

Of course, I was showing the difference. In the OT a man was justified by his own faith through obedience. See Hebrews 11. In the NT a man is justified by the faith of Christ. Christ was perfect in obedience. His faith is imputed to the believer.

lightbearer · Feb 7, 2020

dcontroversal said:

I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law.
But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (word) down from above

Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word (Christ) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
For Christ (the word in the heart and mouth) is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. That is, the word of faith, which we preach. That is Christ through which the word is in the heart and mouth. For God has said, A new Covenant I will make, I will put my my laws in the their hearts and in their minds will I write them. Blessed be the name of the LORD.

(Rom 1:16,17; 9:31-33; 10:6-8,4 KJV)

lightbearer · Feb 7, 2020

dcontroversal said:

Incontinent.
2Tim 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
2Tim 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
2Tim 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Tim 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

dcontroversal · Feb 7, 2020

John146 said:

Nope...wrong.....his righteousness is imputed to the believer and he DEALS a measure of faith to us.......as the SOURCE of our faith.....

again for the 3rd time....explain

FROM faith to faith it is written, the just shall live by faith

Qualify FROM FAITH to FAITH

dcontroversal · Feb 7, 2020

lightbearer said:

Yeah you got that right....nice to see you tagging yourself and finally admitting to your error.....

dcontroversal · Feb 7, 2020

lightbearer said:

I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law.
But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (word) down from above

Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word (Christ) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
For Christ (the word in the heart and mouth) is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. That is, the word of faith, which we preach. That is Christ through which the word is in the heart and mouth. For God has said, A new Covenant I will make, I will put my my laws in the their hearts and in their minds will I write them. Blessed be the name of the LORD.

(Rom 1:16,17; 9:31-33; 10:6-8,4 KJV)

You can quote all day long and it does not change what you have written and the stipulations you have placed upon remaining saved in the past unless you have renounced your past false beliefs....

John146 · Feb 7, 2020

dcontroversal said:

Wrong about what?

Faith to faith...From a man’s faith to the faith of Christ. The faith of Christ was not available to those OT saints.

Galatians 3
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. See Galatians 2:16
23 But before faith came, (Christ’s faith) we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. (Christ’s faith)
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. The faith of Christ.
25 But after that faith is come, (Christ’s faith) we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

eternally-gratefull · Feb 7, 2020

lightbearer said:

If you really believed this, you would agree with us, and stop fighting us.

Judges1318 · Feb 7, 2020

mailmandan said:

New believers, that's how.
The setting apart of the believer into ever increasing fruit and good works is a process.
If you were the rare believer that was born mature, I'm happy for you.
But don't project your experience onto others.
IMO, 95% of genuinely believing, saved Christians are type 2 & 3 soil believers.
The saved Galatians were type 2 soil believers. They believed for a while, and arguably with joy, but fell away.

mailmandan said:

If you do not grow up to good works in your faith and instead persist in dead faith (faith with no works to show for it) that faith will not save you. In the end you will be rejected when Christ returns.

mailmandan said:

Faith without works can not save. James says so. If you do not grow up into works of righteousness, you have a faith that can not save you. Does God expect you to be mature on the day you were born again? Of course not. Can you stay that way to the very end? No, of course not.

mailmandan said:

The mistake you are making is saying all failed believing without exception was never real to begin with. No, the parable of the sower shows us it can be a matter of weak vs. strong faith, not just fake vs. real faith. Until you can grasp that there are, both, fake temporary 'believers' and real temporary believers you will continue to beat your osas drum.

Judges1318 · Feb 7, 2020

mailmandan said:

They know they have eternal life.............until they don't believe. Then they find out that all the believing they have done that they thought was real has really been fake all along. That's hardly a doctrine of assurance. In your doctrine, there's always the potential for tomorrow to reveal your believing to have really been fake all along. Not very assuring.

What I see is you trying to have it both ways. You want to say continuing in faith shows you to be really saved, at the same time you say you can know you're saved before you know if you're going to continue in the faith.

Not By Works

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