Not By Works

[BillG]

The difference is, I'm open minded and will listen to everyone to see what they have to say to see if it contributes to a full understanding of the Bible. I've learned lots that way.


I have made a personal decision that I will not waste any more of my time in a church that is just that.....a waste of time. I actually get more out of talking about the Bible on line, and listening to Christians music on YouTube than I do in a literal, traditional church meeting. This is church for me. I mean that. Sometimes I get higher than a kite in the Spirit by doing this. I put on my favorite Christian music and discuss the Bible with you all and I get really built up.

I do not in any way want to dissuade any of you from no longer attending a brick and mortar church. Please continue to do what you are doing.

You say you are open minded but infact you are not because you reject us greasy gracers who believe in ES/OSAS based on your interpretation of the same Bible we read. And let's be honest it's reciprocal.

Your full understanding is that salvation can be lost and you will not depart from that.

Others say different.

I love my church and the ministry I have in it.

 

[BillG]

As I explained, they get that from the professors who taught their pastors, and who are themselves just as isolated and locked into the predetermined stances and beliefs of the denomination that is paying them to teach those stances and beliefs to our pastors. It's a terrible system. But that's what we got.

Are you any different?

Do you read Bible commentarys?

 

[Judges1318]

Here are some proof texts explaining what is the faith of Christ. The faith of Christ is His testimony. Comparing Scripture to Scripture:

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Oh, so when you say 'faith of Jesus' you say it means the 'life of faith of Jesus', correct?

 

[Judges1318]

You say you are open minded but infact you are not because you reject us greasy gracers who believe in ES/OSAS based on your interpretation of the same Bible we read.

For starters, I believe in Eternal Security.
Every true believer is eternally secure in Christ.
(That's why you should continue to abide in Him.)

I reject any doctrine that says every true believer without exception will continue to believe and that it's impossible for them to go back to unbelief. The Galatians prove that simply is not true.

And let's be honest it's reciprocal.

Well shame on you!

Your full understanding is that salvation can be lost and you will not depart from that.

I say a true believer, particularly weak ones, can stop trusting in Christ for justification, and that you can't have justification in Christ if you're not trusting in God for that justification. And I will depart from that belief when someone can prove that every and all true believers can never stop believing/trusting in Christ for justification.

Others say different.

I'm not stopping anyone from believing anything they want to believe.
I know that there are those who simply won't change what they believe no matter how much proof you show them to the contrary.
(Yes, yes, I know.........I'm one of them, lol).
But I also know there are those who will. Now I am one of those.
I have changed what I believe over the years by what people have shown me.

I love my church and the ministry I have in it.

I'm happy for you.
Some of us aren't so blessed to be able to say they have a church they love.
I admit I haven't visited all of the churches in my area, but I don't think there are any good churches here in Tuscarora, Nevada.

 

[Judges1318]

Do you read Bible commentarys?

Negative.
(That's radio talk for 'no')

 

[Judges1318]

Once you properly interpret verses in context and properly harmonize scripture with scripture, your confusion is removed.

Harmonizing scripture with scripture is the very thing that removed my confusion about various topics of division in the church. I learned that all this division is caused by isolating various verses of scripture by itself, and then inventing ways to defend what you built on that one verse when confronted with other verses that make it impossible to hold that belief.

 

[Rosemaryx]

For starters, I believe in Eternal Security.
Every true believer is eternally secure in Christ.
(That's why you should continue to abide in Him.)

I reject any doctrine that says every true believer without exception will continue to believe and that it's impossible for them to go back to unbelief. The Galatians prove that simply is not true.


Well shame on you!


I say a true believer, particularly weak ones, can stop trusting in Christ for justification, and that you can't have justification in Christ if you're not trusting in God for that justification. And I will depart from that belief when someone can prove that every and all true believers can never stop believing/trusting in Christ for justification.


I'm not stopping anyone from believing anything they want to believe.
I know that there are those who simply won't change what they believe no matter how much proof you show them to the contrary.
(Yes, yes, I know.........I'm one of them, lol).
But I also know there are those who will. Now I am one of those.
I have changed what I believe over the years by what people have shown me.



I'm happy for you.
Some of us aren't so blessed to be able to say they have a church they love.
I admit I haven't visited all of the churches in my area, but I don't think there are any good churches here in Tuscarora, Nevada.

You say "I have changed what I believe over the years by what people have shown me.

Go to your bible , and see what the Word of God shows you...
Let God be true , and every man a liar...

 

[Judges1318]

I run into this all the time with works-salvationists. Their favorite verse to allegedly prove that salvation is by works is James 2:24, in which they claim it plainly says man is justified/saved by works and not by faith alone, yet they ignore the context and they also ignore Romans 4:2-3. It's called Biblical hermeneutics.

And so they are just as wrong as osas that does the same thing. Osas also ignores context, and other passages of scripture that make what they claim about a certain verse impossible to be true. You won't find that to be true with my doctrine.

 

[Rosemaryx]

And so they are just as wrong as osas that does the same thing. Osas also ignores context, and other passages of scripture that make what they claim about a certain verse impossible to be true. You won't find that to be true with my doctrine.

So the true Word of God says we have eternal life , but your doctrine says we do not not ...
Thank God His Word is the truth , and we know for sure we have eternal life , as Jesus said we are already clean by His Word that He has spoken...

 

[John146]

Oh, so when you say 'faith of Jesus' you say it means the 'life of faith of Jesus', correct?

His testimony of His perfect obedience even unto His death. That is what brings salvation, is it not? The testimony of Jesus being God in the flesh and dying on the cross for our sins?

 

[John146]

And so they are just as wrong as osas that does the same thing. Osas also ignores context, and other passages of scripture that make what they claim about a certain verse impossible to be true. You won't find that to be true with my doctrine.

First lesson of study...know who the writer is addressing and apply the doctrine accordingly. If it’s not written to the Church, then don’t apply the doctrine to the Church.

 

[mailmandan]

Not only are they to continue in the faith they are to continue being grounded and settled. So your point is moot.

If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
(Col 1:23 KJV)

Faith is a noun. It is a state of being. It is who they are. They can not continue in a state that they are not.

This statement that you made below in a previous post makes your points moot.

“The Life Death and Resurrection is the means to the Gospel not the Gospel.”

 

[Rosemaryx]

This statement that you made below in a previous post makes your points moot.

“The Life Death and Resurrection is the means to the Gospel not the Gospel.”

That is bizarre

 

[Judges1318]

First lesson of study...know who the writer is addressing and apply the doctrine accordingly. If it’s not written to the Church, then don’t apply the doctrine to the Church.

I would not make that the first lesson of study.
Even if something isn't written to you directly it still probably has some application to you. That's pretty much what the Bible is all about. What you need to do is discern what it's saying to you. For example, the law of the oxen. It's application was quite literal for the old covenant nation of God's people. It's application is spiritual for the New Covenant people of God. But either way, it is speaking to both.

 

[EleventhHour]

This statement that you made below in a previous post makes your points moot.

“The Life Death and Resurrection is the means to the Gospel not the Gospel.”

This statement is against Christ, outside the Christian Faith and blasphemous.

 

[John146]

I would not make that the first lesson of study.
Even if something isn't written to you directly it still probably has some application to you. That's pretty much what the Bible is all about. What you need to do is discern what it's saying to you. For example, the law of the oxen. It's application was quite literal for the old covenant nation of God's people. It's application is spiritual for the New Covenant people of God. But either way, it is speaking to both.

One is doctrine, one is spiritual. Doctrine should be literally followed as God directed. Spiritual teachings are personal applications that can vary from person to person.

 

[Judges1318]

One is doctrine, one is spiritual. Doctrine should be literally followed as God directed. Spiritual teachings are personal applications that can vary from person to person.

The law of the oxen now has a spiritual meaning and application, and it's spiritual meaning is applied equally to all believers.

 

[John146]

The law of the oxen now has a spiritual meaning and application, and it's spiritual meaning is applied equally to all believers.

Yes, as one has, not from what he does not have. In the OT, it was a command, no ifs.

 

[Judges1318]

Yes, as one has, not from what he does not have. In the OT, it was a command, no ifs.

Don't forget your own argument you were making:

If it’s not written to the Church, then don’t apply the doctrine to the Church.

The law of the oxen wasn't written to the church, yet it has application to the church.

 

[Judges1318]

His testimony of His perfect obedience even unto His death. That is what brings salvation, is it not? The testimony of Jesus being God in the flesh and dying on the cross for our sins?

Is that what brings salvation?
All I know is you believe in Christ for the forgiveness of sin and you are saved.
Why make it so complicated?