Not By Works

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OneOfHis

Well-known member
Mar 24, 2019
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Amen! Although it is our responsibility to choose to believe and we will be held accountable for unbelief (John 3:18) coming to Christ is not "exclusively" a matter of human decision. Unless the Father draws us (John 6:44) and enables us/it has been granted by the Father (John 6:65) we would NEVER come to Christ all by ourselves. The approach of the soul to Christ is initiated by the Father, but He doesn't force us to come to Christ and we must choose to come to Him once enabled. The impulse to come to Christ comes from the Father.
Nope. I disagree, I did not "choose" to believe.


I agree we are held accountable for unbelief and can choose to start as willfully ignorant only to then be blinded.

But I didn't hear the gospel and say "oh I choose to believe that"....


I heard it as a child and didn't understand it. Went through life not caring about it. Was drawn to the truth and it terrified me. Tried to honestly reject it but I did it through reading the bible and looking for HONEST proof against Jesus....


The bible rang true then I had to believe when I couldnt escape the fear of the judgement I knew I deserved.

I also didn't choose to trust in Christ over my own actions.... at first I believed my actions would dictate wether or not I am seen as righteous come judgement.... I did not choose to be delivered from this into trusting in Christ....

God used members of His body to show me my error... again at first I rejected this and looked to Gods word for truth.....

And when the truth rang as Christ being my righteousness.... I believed it because it rang true... not because I wanted it to...



I could say I chose to pick up the bible but that was only because I believed what God revealed to me in regards to the bible being the truth...

That would be an example of faith producing works which I cant even take credit for.



Maybe it's semantics brother, I love the way you say things and admit you are far more experienced and mature than I am... but I can't take credit for my faith.... (if thats not what you were implying I am sorry for misunderstanding you... I respect you a lot as my older brother in Christ)
 
Apr 7, 2014
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Nope. I disagree, I did not "choose" to believe......Maybe it's semantics brother, I love the way you say things and admit you are far more experienced and mature than I am... but I can't take credit for my faith.... (if thats not what you were implying I am sorry for misunderstanding you... I respect you a lot as my older brother in Christ)
Maybe it is just in the semantics brother. I grew up in the Roman Catholic church and for around the first 30 years of my life thought eternal life was something to be received based on the merits of my goodness/performance. As a Roman Catholic, I certainly was trusting in works for salvation. Over the years, people have tried to share the gospel with me (including my older brother) but the simple truth of the gospel just continued to go right over my head.

It was not until I prayed to Jesus one day and asked Him that whatever it takes to get me to heaven, please make the answer crystal clear to me so that I can say there is the answer and I will only have myself to blame for failing to accept the answer. As a Roman Catholic, I was drowning in NON-assurance of salvation and it continued to nag at me for years! Soon after I prayed to Jesus, I came across a gospel tract about the Roman Road to salvation on the internet. I did not grasp it at first, but I knew that I was really onto something and I could feel the Lord drawing me in more and more! Eventually, I became convinced of my sins, repented and believed the gospel.

Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. (Romans 10:17) (y)

I knew without a doubt that I had become born again and it was like a bright light came on over my head immediately after and it was like I could hear the voices of multiple people who tried to share the gospel with me from my past over the years and I looked back at that moment saying to myself, "that's what he/she meant, that's what they were trying to tell me." NOW I GET IT!!! Praise the Lord! :)

Now I don't believe that God forced me to believe the gospel or that He somehow "zapped" me with saving faith in Christ and I had no choice in the matter whatsoever, as if it was fatalistically determined by God (as taught in Calvinism) but without the Father drawing me and enabling me (John 6:44,65), there is NO WAY that I would have come to Christ and chosen to believe the gospel all by myself. I clearly remember making a conscience decision to repent and believe the gospel, but it was not without God drawing me and enabling me. That's my testimony. :)
 
May 3, 2017
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Nope. I disagree, I did not "choose" to believe.


I agree we are held accountable for unbelief and can choose to start as willfully ignorant only to then be blinded.

But I didn't hear the gospel and say "oh I choose to believe that"....


I heard it as a child and didn't understand it. Went through life not caring about it. Was drawn to the truth and it terrified me. Tried to honestly reject it but I did it through reading the bible and looking for HONEST proof against Jesus....


The bible rang true then I had to believe when I couldnt escape the fear of the judgement I knew I deserved.

I also didn't choose to trust in Christ over my own actions.... at first I believed my actions would dictate wether or not I am seen as righteous come judgement.... I did not choose to be delivered from this into trusting in Christ....

God used members of His body to show me my error... again at first I rejected this and looked to Gods word for truth.....

And when the truth rang as Christ being my righteousness.... I believed it because it rang true... not because I wanted it to...



I could say I chose to pick up the bible but that was only because I believed what God revealed to me in regards to the bible being the truth...

That would be an example of faith producing works which I cant even take credit for.



Maybe it's semantics brother, I love the way you say things and admit you are far more experienced and mature than I am... but I can't take credit for my faith.... (if thats not what you were implying I am sorry for misunderstanding you... I respect you a lot as my older brother in Christ)
Seems like God was calling you from a very young age , how patient He is :)...
...xox...
 

OneOfHis

Well-known member
Mar 24, 2019
1,040
1,716
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Maybe it is just in the semantics brother. I grew up in the Roman Catholic church and for around the first 30 years of my life thought eternal life was something to be received based on the merits of my goodness/performance. As a Roman Catholic, I certainly was trusting in works for salvation. Over the years, people have tried to share the gospel with me (including my older brother) but the simple truth of the gospel just continued to go right over my head.

It was not until I prayed to Jesus one day and asked Him that whatever it takes to get me to heaven, please make the answer crystal clear to me so that I can say there is the answer and I will only have myself to blame for failing to accept the answer. As a Roman Catholic, I was drowning in NON-assurance of salvation and it continued to nag at me for years! Soon after I prayed to Jesus, I came across a gospel tract about the Roman Road to salvation on the internet. I did not grasp it at first, but I knew that I was really onto something and I could feel the Lord drawing me in more and more! Eventually, I became convinced of my sins, repented and believed the gospel. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. (Romans 10:17) (y)

I knew without a doubt that I had become born again and it was like a bright light came on over my head immediately after and it was like I could hear the voices of multiple people who tried to share the gospel with me from my past and I looked back at that moment saying to myself, "that's what he/she meant, that's what they were trying to tell me." NOW I GET IT!!! Praise the Lord! :)

Now I don't believe that God forced me to believe the gospel or that He somehow "zapped" me with saving faith in Christ and I had no choice in the matter whatsoever, as if it was fatalistically determined by God (as taught in Calvinism) but without the Father drawing me and enabling me (John 6:44,65), there is NO WAY that I would have come to Christ and chosen to believe the gospel all by myself. I clearly remember making a conscience decision to repent and believe the gospel, but it was not without God drawing me and enabling me. That's my testimony. :)

Definitely semantics, praise God for all His works in your life.

Powerful testimony.

I misunderstood your point "chose to believe" to mean something you weren't implying.

That prayer to Jesus you made was a product of the faith you had in Jesus. But your prayer was for Him to show you what He wants you to see. (the gospel of salvation, which you had previously CHOSE to ignore)
 

OneOfHis

Well-known member
Mar 24, 2019
1,040
1,716
113
Maybe it is just in the semantics brother. I grew up in the Roman Catholic church and for around the first 30 years of my life thought eternal life was something to be received based on the merits of my goodness/performance. As a Roman Catholic, I certainly was trusting in works for salvation. Over the years, people have tried to share the gospel with me (including my older brother) but the simple truth of the gospel just continued to go right over my head.

It was not until I prayed to Jesus one day and asked Him that whatever it takes to get me to heaven, please make the answer crystal clear to me so that I can say there is the answer and I will only have myself to blame for failing to accept the answer. As a Roman Catholic, I was drowning in NON-assurance of salvation and it continued to nag at me for years! Soon after I prayed to Jesus, I came across a gospel tract about the Roman Road to salvation on the internet. I did not grasp it at first, but I knew that I was really onto something and I could feel the Lord drawing me in more and more! Eventually, I became convinced of my sins, repented and believed the gospel.

Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. (Romans 10:17) (y)

I knew without a doubt that I had become born again and it was like a bright light came on over my head immediately after and it was like I could hear the voices of multiple people who tried to share the gospel with me from my past over the years and I looked back at that moment saying to myself, "that's what he/she meant, that's what they were trying to tell me." NOW I GET IT!!! Praise the Lord! :)

Now I don't believe that God forced me to believe the gospel or that He somehow "zapped" me with saving faith in Christ and I had no choice in the matter whatsoever, as if it was fatalistically determined by God (as taught in Calvinism) but without the Father drawing me and enabling me (John 6:44,65), there is NO WAY that I would have come to Christ and chosen to believe the gospel all by myself. I clearly remember making a conscience decision to repent and believe the gospel, but it was not without God drawing me and enabling me. That's my testimony. :)

Also brother... I am turning 30 this year.

Maybe that would make you more like my uncle in Christ?🤣🤣


Just playing.

That is so incredible..... I know how stubborn I can get even now.

I have catholic people in my family who disagree about certain things.... when I have tried to talk to them about the gospel... they seem to answer with anti - protestant propoganda.....

If I ask to leave out denominations all together and discuss scripture, they have something against kjv as well as similar translations....

I also heard some of them

1. Dont pray to saints or mary or anything like that.

2. dont trust the pope.

3. dont believe in purgatory.


but
4. still ..... have a troubled assurance



Did you by anychance hear a lot of anti kingjames and anti protestant stuff as a catholic?
 
May 3, 2017
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Also brother... I am turning 30 this year.

Maybe that would make you more like my uncle in Christ?🤣🤣


Just playing.

That is so incredible..... I know how stubborn I can get even now.

I have catholic people in my family who disagree about certain things.... when I have tried to talk to them about the gospel... they seem to answer with anti - protestant propoganda.....

If I ask to leave out denominations all together and discuss scripture, they have something against kjv as well as similar translations....

I also heard some of them

1. Dont pray to saints or mary or anything like that.

2. dont trust the pope.

3. dont believe in purgatory.


but
4. still ..... have a troubled assurance



Did you by anychance hear a lot of anti kingjames and anti protestant stuff as a catholic?
When I grew up in RCC , brought up with nuns for seven yrs , living in a childrens home and had them teach me at school , we were never given a bible to read , no one ever sat down with us and read from the bible...
...xox...
 
Apr 7, 2014
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Also brother... I am turning 30 this year.

Maybe that would make you more like my uncle in Christ?🤣🤣

Just playing.

That is so incredible..... I know how stubborn I can get even now.

I have catholic people in my family who disagree about certain things.... when I have tried to talk to them about the gospel... they seem to answer with anti - protestant propoganda.....

If I ask to leave out denominations all together and discuss scripture, they have something against kjv as well as similar translations....

I also heard some of them

1. Dont pray to saints or mary or anything like that.

2. dont trust the pope.

3. dont believe in purgatory.

but
4. still ..... have a troubled assurance

Did you by anychance hear a lot of anti kingjames and anti protestant stuff as a catholic?
I've heard plenty of anti-protestant propaganda from Roman Catholics in my family, including the, "protestants have attempted to interpret the Bible for themselves and as a result, we now have over 30,000 denominations." My mother places a huge emphasis on the bread and wine during communion, as if it's magically transformed into the actual body and blood of Christ (transubstantiation) which she believes infuses grace and gets you closer to God, yet protestants just eat plain old crackers and drink grape juice during communion, as if it has no significance and is done in vain. I have heard a few Roman Catholic "closet doubters" say they don't believe in purgatory, don't trust the pope, are not fully convinced about transubstantiation etc.. I have also heard Roman Catholics belittle the KJV and point out that the protestant Bible is missing the apocrypha, which they also believe to be the inspired word of God.
 
One cannot preach "sanctification" unless one preaches the true, one and only, Gospel of salvation first.
Jesus Christ preached the Gospel of the Kingdom. Death to sin by faith, united with Christ in baptism, then a life lived unto God alone and not to one’s self. A life lived via the Holy Spirit which He came for the purpose of baptizing us with, according to the Scriptures.

The mainstream “gospel” of Christianity became no gospel at all.
 
The person who is slave to sin is the one who has not yet been obedient to the Gospel of Christ Jesus.

That would be the correct Gospel, where one receives the gift of eternal life, which is once and for always, ...received by grace through faith apart from any and all works.

The worker for salvation claims heaven ...but Jesus states I never knew you.
We refer instead to the words of Jesus instead, “He who sins is a slave of sin, and a slave does not have a permanent place in the household, but a son belongs to it forever. So, if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.”

Many have the temporary place.
 
Apr 7, 2014
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Here is a list of false gospels that I typically hear today.

Salvation is by grace through faith, plus works.
Salvation is by grace through faith, plus "these" works and just not "those" works.
Salvation is initially by grace through faith, but is maintained by works.
Salvation is by grace through faith plus sinless perfection.
Salvation is by grace plus law, faith plus works.
 

Tellion

Junior Member
Jan 8, 2003
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Wow, just realized I was writing HTML code and didn't even have to. Look at all those nifty word processor buttons up there. Yay! This will make things MUCH easier.
 

EleventhHour

Well-known member
Nov 11, 2019
2,626
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113
Maybe it is just in the semantics brother. I grew up in the Roman Catholic church and for around the first 30 years of my life thought eternal life was something to be received based on the merits of my goodness/performance. As a Roman Catholic, I certainly was trusting in works for salvation. Over the years, people have tried to share the gospel with me (including my older brother) but the simple truth of the gospel just continued to go right over my head.

It was not until I prayed to Jesus one day and asked Him that whatever it takes to get me to heaven, please make the answer crystal clear to me so that I can say there is the answer and I will only have myself to blame for failing to accept the answer. As a Roman Catholic, I was drowning in NON-assurance of salvation and it continued to nag at me for years! Soon after I prayed to Jesus, I came across a gospel tract about the Roman Road to salvation on the internet. I did not grasp it at first, but I knew that I was really onto something and I could feel the Lord drawing me in more and more! Eventually, I became convinced of my sins, repented and believed the gospel.

Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. (Romans 10:17) (y)

I knew without a doubt that I had become born again and it was like a bright light came on over my head immediately after and it was like I could hear the voices of multiple people who tried to share the gospel with me from my past over the years and I looked back at that moment saying to myself, "that's what he/she meant, that's what they were trying to tell me." NOW I GET IT!!! Praise the Lord! :)

Now I don't believe that God forced me to believe the gospel or that He somehow "zapped" me with saving faith in Christ and I had no choice in the matter whatsoever, as if it was fatalistically determined by God (as taught in Calvinism) but without the Father drawing me and enabling me (John 6:44,65), there is NO WAY that I would have come to Christ and chosen to believe the gospel all by myself. I clearly remember making a conscience decision to repent and believe the gospel, but it was not without God drawing me and enabling me. That's my testimony. :)
Agree not forced to believe.. I heard and I was persuaded, convicted and convinced that I could not earn my salvation and needed what Jesus offered.

I did not even know what Jesus accomplished for humanity until someone actually explained it to me.

At my own just subjective understanding of my own experience underlying it all..... was humility
 

EleventhHour

Well-known member
Nov 11, 2019
2,626
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We refer instead to the words of Jesus instead, “He who sins is a slave of sin, and a slave does not have a permanent place in the household, but a son belongs to it forever. So, if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.”

Many have the temporary place.
No temporary place for those in Christ and have Christ Jesus in them.

Only He is sinless...get your facts straight.

You sin every day, the fact you deny your sin is a sin, because it shows pride and is a lie.

Your Jeeezus = Failure did not conquer sin and death


The true Christ Jesus = victorious and we are victorious in Him, all sin dealt with at the cross and He rose from the dead...conquering death.
 
No temporary place for those in Christ and have Christ Jesus in them.

Only He is sinless...get your facts straight.

You sin every day, the fact you deny your sin is a sin, because it shows pride and is a lie.

Your Jeeezus = Failure did not conquer sin and death


The true Christ Jesus = victorious and we are victorious in Him, all sin dealt with at the cross and He rose from the dead...conquering death.
We see why I have peace and you do not. A pervert calls the Lord Jesus Christ by a perverse title.

You reject His words plainly and appeal to the thoughts of fallen man, accuser of the brethren. But I will live on every word which proceeds from His mouth, by grace and by faith.
 

EleventhHour

Well-known member
Nov 11, 2019
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Jesus Christ preached the Gospel of the Kingdom. Death to sin by faith, united with Christ in baptism, then a life lived unto God alone and not to one’s self. A life lived via the Holy Spirit which He came for the purpose of baptizing us with, according to the Scriptures.

The mainstream “gospel” of Christianity became no gospel at all.
Your good news is "I save myself" .... yup that is real good news :rolleyes:


Let me know when you have sanctified yourself by your own power....I can tell you one thing I won't be holding my breath....cause never gonna happen.
 

EleventhHour

Well-known member
Nov 11, 2019
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We see why I have peace and you do not. A pervert calls the Lord Jesus Christ by a perverse title.

You reject His words plainly and appeal to the thoughts of fallen man, accuser of the brethren. But I will live on every word which proceeds from His mouth, by grace and by faith.
Your Jesus is not Jesus that is the point, and it painful to associate HIS name with your false teachings.

So I perverted no name... but one thing is clear to all of us.....
You pervert the Gospel and it does not deserve to have the name of Jesus the Christ associated with it!
 

EleventhHour

Well-known member
Nov 11, 2019
2,626
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We see why I have peace and you do not. A pervert calls the Lord Jesus Christ by a perverse title.

You reject His words plainly and appeal to the thoughts of fallen man, accuser of the brethren. But I will live on every word which proceeds from His mouth, by grace and by faith.
You have peace.... is this the comedy hour or something!!!

Only secure in Jesus brings peace.
 

OneOfHis

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Mar 24, 2019
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Your Jesus is not Jesus that is the point, and it painful to associate HIS name with your false teachings.

So I perverted no name... but one thing is clear to all of us.....
You pervert the Gospel and it does not deserve to have the name of Jesus the Christ associated with it!
Don't buy in to the bait of an accuser.🤦‍♂️

You were spot on, people like that like to try and manipulate the situation to help them appear elevated either morally or intellectually..


There is no peace aside from ignorance in those who trust in their walk opposed to Christs.
 

OneOfHis

Well-known member
Mar 24, 2019
1,040
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We see why I have peace and you do not. A pervert calls the Lord Jesus Christ by a perverse title.

You reject His words plainly and appeal to the thoughts of fallen man, accuser of the brethren. But I will live on every word which proceeds from His mouth, by grace and by faith.

Your statement is dishonest and contains a false accusation against a child of God.

You implied she called God by a perverse title but she did not.

Just as Elijah said "
And Elijah said unto the prophets of Baal, Choose you one bullock for yourselves, and dress it first; for ye are many; and call on the name of your gods, but put no fire under.

26 And they took the bullock which was given them, and they dressed it, and called on the name of Baal from morning even until noon, saying, O Baal, hear us. But there was no voice, nor any that answered. And they leaped upon the altar which was made.

27 And it came to pass at noon, that Elijah mocked them, and said, Cry aloud: for he is a god; either he is talking, or he is pursuing, or he is in a journey, or peradventure he sleepeth, and must be awaked.

28 And they cried aloud, and cut themselves after their manner with knives and lancets, till the blood gushed out upon them."



He was not calling God a god, He was calling their "gods" "gods"...


She never once referred to Jesus in a perverted way despite your hypocritical and false accusation.