Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
P

Pisteuo

Guest
A gospel with no Jesus ... you have replaced Him with "continual surrender"

Meaning .....I save myself
So are you saying " believing by itself"is NT pisteuo? And " a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender is not"?
 
Nov 16, 2019
3,441
860
113
Would you suppose a former born again person could become born again, again?
No, not once God turns the 'Prodigal', or whatever you want to call him, over to his decision to not believe anymore.

We know from the example of the saved Galatians that God gave them space to come back to faith in Christ by the simple fact that God made his appeal through Paul for them to come back. But we know from Hebrews 6:4-6 that if they didn't in whatever space God allotted for them to come back that they will then be prevented from coming back because God does not allow Christ to be subjected to the open shame of being crucified all over again.
 
Nov 16, 2019
3,441
860
113
It is impossible for us to believe something we can't see as true.
I know. That's why God gives us the faith (the ability to know what we can't see is true-Hebrews 11:1) so we can then place our trust in what we now know to really be true. That's a big part of what makes salvation so gracious, taking away anyone's boast in it. For, as you say, no one believes in something they don't know is true. But by God's grace we are shown it's true.

I just have trouble understanding how you believe God could save someone from a just punishment, then that same someone ends up burning in Hell.
What you should be saying is you can't understand how someone can be delivered from the just punishment of their sins and then later turn away from that deliverance in a willful decision to not embrace it anymore. I can't understand that, but I know someone personally who was genuinely saved that did just that.

We can know now we have eternal life. This is a gift of God.
Yep. Everyone who is presently believing has eternal life.
Every genuine believer, strong or weak, has a deposit of the life of the Spirit in them right now, guaranteeing them the full measure of the Spirit to come in the life to come.
But you must continue to have that down payment of the Spirit by continuing to trust in Christ to the very end in order to receive the rest of the Promise.

You always mention to keep believing... it just sounds so wrong....
That's because you are not exposed to other legitimate beliefs about this subject.
All I've been sharing is right out of the Bible in plain copied words, no special interpretations needed.
In fact, the special interpretations are needed in order to make them not really mean what they say.

It is impossible for me to not believe in God.... I know Him.... I trust in Christ... (part of faith is more than just belief but also trust.... confidence.... FAITHFULNESS-loyalty)

His sheep hear His voice and if we were to wander so far off we couldn't.... He would come find us....


(please if you respond don't delete anything even if you don't address it all)
It's more impossible to not to continue to believe in God's salvation if you are strong. But there really are weak believers for whom the threat of falling away into a rejection of the gospel is very real. The Galatians were weak believers. Paul said God knew them, but he balked at saying they 'knew' him. The more personally you 'know' God is the extent to which your faith will be strong and unmovable.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
So are you saying " believing by itself"is NT pisteuo? And " a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender is not"?
I will agree that in classical times "belief" and "believing"had a deeper meaning than how we use and understand belief /believing now.

That is what @mailmandan showed in his post when he defined the Greek word.

However your addition of personal ongoing surrender as a condition of salvation is not biblical.
 
P

Pisteuo

Guest
I will agree that in classical times "belief" and "believing"had a deeper meaning than how we use and understand belief /believing now.

That is what @mailmandan showed in his post when he defined the Greek word.

However your addition of personal ongoing surrender as a condition of salvation is not biblical.
Gotcha !!!!!
 
P

Pisteuo

Guest
I will agree that in classical times "belief" and "believing"had a deeper meaning than how we use and understand belief /believing now.

That is what @mailmandan showed in his post when he defined the Greek word.

However your addition of personal ongoing surrender as a condition of salvation is not biblical.
Lol! Then you mmd under the bus, priceless!

Wake up !
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
3,810
1,117
113
Not sure what the fight is over here! LOL! believing? surrender? pisteuo? salvation?

For me, I believe in Christ, and I surrender to Christ, and I am saved in Christ. The three are so intertwined is such a beautiful powerful way in a life of victory over death, and sin, and the Devil. I certainly will not give up any of the three.
 
Nov 24, 2019
395
196
43
Virginia
www.youtube.com
There's nothing left to discuss. Unless you want to walk away from being a dishonest reporter.
She's completely lost while pretending she isn't... like so many Christians. But unlike many of them, she realizes how dishonest she is and doubles down on it. Her little cronies pat her back with all the meaningless typing the do while the Kingdom of God is elsewhere.
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
1,549
2,017
113
North Carolina
The thing I "hold onto" is the knowledge of the love Christ has for me and all mankind, even those who twist His Words, override His Grace and continue to "work" for what has already been offered and in some cases given to them.

Jesus our Redeemer and Author of our Fate. Praise God
 
P

Pisteuo

Guest
She's completely lost while pretending she isn't... like so many Christians. But unlike many of them, she realizes how dishonest she is and doubles down on it. Her little cronies pat her back with all the meaningless typing the do while the Kingdom of God is elsewhere.
I couldn't have said it better myself.

I didn't share this with her and the others to make them feel attacked or that I told you so moment. I share this with others because we've been taught another gospel, ( the Believe and receive ) and we don't even realize it. I've presented a mountain of truth, not to destroy but to unite!

So RebuildJesuschurch, let's talk about your understanding. Do we have some things in common?
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
She's completely lost while pretending she isn't... like so many Christians. But unlike many of them, she realizes how dishonest she is and doubles down on it. Her little cronies pat her back with all the meaningless typing the do while the Kingdom of God is elsewhere.
I am thinking I have stuck a nerve with you?

Only those working to earn what has already been achieved are lost according to scripture.


Why do people with a false gospel always harp on same single shrill note.. "keep believing to be saved, "continual surrendered life to be saved" "the kingdom of God and my salvation is my work"

I am not lost because I believe what God tells me.....you on the other hand believe yourself.

He has saved us, not because of the righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, Titus 3:5
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
That means you've been given the truth, yet you reject it and report a false truth knowing the difference. Intentionally reporting something you know is not true.
Wrong...I only report what I know to be Truth

I know salvation is not by works, cannot be achieved, earned, attained, rewarded, lost, forsaken, revoked, returned, abandoned, misplaced, added to,

It is a gift given in a moment in time.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God
Ephesians 2:8
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
She's completely lost while pretending she isn't... like so many Christians. But unlike many of them, she realizes how dishonest she is and doubles down on it. Her little cronies pat her back with all the meaningless typing the do while the Kingdom of God is elsewhere.
I wonder how a person who is completely lost pretend they are not?

I mean since they are completely lost how would they know any different?:unsure: