Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Most osas are simply deceived.
They haven't heard much outside of their spoon fed osas dogma to know any better.
But the person who has been clearly shown they can't interpret the scriptures the way they do, but continues to do so anyway, is just being dishonest.
I'm trying to be nice, but I've knocked down every single one of your arguments with grounded, verifiable, logical, Biblical materiel and yet you stubbornly refuse to acknowledge the holes in your doctrine that I've exposed.
See, I've been where you're at.
I'm on this side of the argument.
I see these holes.
It's hard for me to believe you can't see them after me showing you them, that's why I have little choice but to think you're just being stubbornly dishonest.
They haven't heard much outside of their spoon fed osas dogma to know any better.
But the person who has been clearly shown they can't interpret the scriptures the way they do, but continues to do so anyway, is just being dishonest.
I'm trying to be nice, but I've knocked down every single one of your arguments with grounded, verifiable, logical, Biblical materiel and yet you stubbornly refuse to acknowledge the holes in your doctrine that I've exposed.
See, I've been where you're at.
I'm on this side of the argument.
I see these holes.
It's hard for me to believe you can't see them after me showing you them, that's why I have little choice but to think you're just being stubbornly dishonest.
-
1
- Show all
I don't need those specific words to understand: His saints are preserved forever.. (Psalm 37:28) Jesus' sheep are given eternal life, shall never perish or be snatched from His hand. (John 10:28) Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. (Romans 8:30) Those who believe the gospel are sealed with the Holy Spirit until the redemption of the purchased possession/unto the day of redemption. (Ephesians 1:13-14; 4:30) Just to name a few and that's good enough for me. 
-
2
- Show all
Eternal means eternal.
I said that.
Your error is assigning the eternal part to your possession of Christ's life instead of to Christ's life itself as the Bible does.
Do you even understand what I just said?
I'm not asking you if you agree with it.
I'm simply asking do you even understand my argument?
State my argument back to me in your own words to show that you even understand what I'm saying.
I'm guessing ahead of time you won't, because I really think at this point you are literally incapable of understanding any argument outside of your own narrow osas doctrines, let alone agree with them.
Sorry to be so blunt but this is painfully obvious.
I said that.
Your error is assigning the eternal part to your possession of Christ's life instead of to Christ's life itself as the Bible does.
Do you even understand what I just said?
I'm not asking you if you agree with it.
I'm simply asking do you even understand my argument?
State my argument back to me in your own words to show that you even understand what I'm saying.
I'm guessing ahead of time you won't, because I really think at this point you are literally incapable of understanding any argument outside of your own narrow osas doctrines, let alone agree with them.
Sorry to be so blunt but this is painfully obvious.
There is no "if", the person either believes permanently or they never believed to begin with. This is plainly said by Jesus:
John 6:64 Yet there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him.
Judas had initially joined and followed Jesus of his own free will, he must have believed Jesus was the Messiah in order to do so.
Did Judas start and stop believing, as you would propose happened? Jesus says differently: Judas never believed to begin with. Jesus never knew him.
Also:
Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
These professed believers did not get known and afterwards unknown and salvation retracted; JESUS states they were simply never known, and never saved. So I don't really know why you argue the start and stop believing. It doesn't exist.
John 6:64 Yet there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him.
Judas had initially joined and followed Jesus of his own free will, he must have believed Jesus was the Messiah in order to do so.
Did Judas start and stop believing, as you would propose happened? Jesus says differently: Judas never believed to begin with. Jesus never knew him.
Also:
Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
These professed believers did not get known and afterwards unknown and salvation retracted; JESUS states they were simply never known, and never saved. So I don't really know why you argue the start and stop believing. It doesn't exist.
-
2
- Show all
LOL! You have exposed nothing, except your pride and arrogance. This all seems to be just a big ego trip for you to win your argument at all costs. You even resort to calling me dishonest. Keep in mind that I've been where you're at. Prior to my conversion several years ago while still attending the Roman Catholic church, I subscribed to NOSAS, lived in fear and bondage to IN-security and was miserable! The Roman Catholic version of NOSAS was also tied to "type 2 works salvation" which is always seems to be knocking at the door of NOSAS. It was not until after I received Christ through faith that I came to believe OSAS/security of the believer/preservation of the saints.
-
1
- Show all
Hebrews 6:4-6 says it.
Yes, yes, I know....
Partaking of the Holy Spirit 'doesn't really' mean partaking of the Holy Spirit in salvation.
Osas has to say that to prevent the passage from saying we can lose salvation. I get it.
No need to make the argument again.
...if you keep believing.
You're leaving out that important part.
Even Lt. dan agrees with that, lol.
But for some reason he is refusing to call you people out on these new osas beliefs in the church today that are sweeping his old osas beliefs out the door.
Yes, yes, I know....
Partaking of the Holy Spirit 'doesn't really' mean partaking of the Holy Spirit in salvation.
Osas has to say that to prevent the passage from saying we can lose salvation. I get it.
No need to make the argument again.
...if you keep believing.
You're leaving out that important part.
Even Lt. dan agrees with that, lol.
But for some reason he is refusing to call you people out on these new osas beliefs in the church today that are sweeping his old osas beliefs out the door.
Exactly!
Biblical non-osas, on the other hand, has no fear attached to it except the fear of being cut out of the tree because of turning away from the goodness of God in unbelief. The person who is continuing in the belief they started out in has no reason to fear if he is saved or not.
Biblical non-osas, on the other hand, has no fear attached to it except the fear of being cut out of the tree because of turning away from the goodness of God in unbelief. The person who is continuing in the belief they started out in has no reason to fear if he is saved or not.
-
1
- Show all
It tickles the ears of those who subscribe to "self preservation" over God's preservation. Guess who gets the credit for pulling themselves by their own bootstraps and continuing to believe? as if it's all about THEM.
What a twisted, horrible doctrine.
But of course, YOUR believing is not that, right?
-
1
- Show all