Not By Works

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lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
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HBG. Pa. USA
what does this saying mean -

if our hearts condemn us, God is greater than our hearts
?
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.
(Jer 17:9-10 KJV)
 
Nov 17, 2017
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Life is the trial, we have mountain top moments and valley tribulations , we win we lose, this is applicable to all men.
For me to say for someone a babe in Christ, who is struggling, or whatever your vice is, they are not saved......is surely
high above any flesh and blood creatures vocation to call that shot.
If we live a life of sin after we come to God without repenting we are not saved anymore or were not saved in the first place.
No comment on God JUSTIFYING the righteous?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
31,173
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The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.
(Jer 17:9-10 KJV)
what does it mean,

brothers, if our hearts condemn us, God is greater than our hearts and knows all things
?
 

Phoneman-777

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2019
2,216
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No one other than you said anything close to this.

Weak and powerless accusations, strawmen, catch phrases and imputing thoughts or beliefs to others... addressing people who aren't around or don't exist who hold beliefs not being represented here...🤦‍♂️

Exactly ike what you just did again.
You using that word "Straw man"..I don't think you know what it means. A question is not "argument", straw man or otherwise - it's a question. OK? Please allow me to ask it again: You said opponents of OSAS appear weak and powerless.
OK, let me say this: We Conditional Salvationists embrace "I can do all things through Christ which strengthens me". Temptation assaults and it's so severe that you think you'll just DIE if you don't give in - and you men out there know EXACTLY what I'm talkin about - but the Voice of Truth reminds you Jesus is "a very present help in time of need", so you choose effectual prayer instead of sinful pleasure. Immediately, you feel a surge of power from on high and you rise up and fight and fight and resist and resist, until that bastard devil finally gives up and flees.

Now, I ask you, is it fair to characterize as "weak and powerless" the experience of one while under attack takes hold of Omnipotence and gains victory over sin, while claiming OSAS - the theological equivalent of a Special Snowflake Safe Space where "No Free Speech Zones" and coloring books are replaced with stopped ears and twisted Scripture - is the place where "more than conquerors" gather to swap war stories? Give me a break.
 
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Phoneman-777

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2019
2,216
317
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You.... are serious?😯


Oh goodness phoneman...


The context is clear, the woman was caught in adultery, guilty.

Brought before Jesus, and He at no point condemned her for that. Not because she said "sorry" for what she just did and like He gave her another chance, but IN REALITY because He is her Lord....


If your father caught you up past your bed time, then told you to go to bed and don't do that again, it is not a condition to remain in the family.🤦‍♂️

It is proper instruction from a loving Father.

Jesus wasn't giving a condition for salvation but proper instruction for a clean walk and most definitely referring to the specific sin she was just brought before Him for. (though the lovely advice applies to all sin obviously)
I'm happy you agree that Jesus meant what He said when He said, "Go and sin no more". So, if OSAS is correct, then why bother us with all the warnings and admonitions, if in the end, Jesus is gonna just flip a switch in our brain on Judgment Day and make us hate all the pride, booze, porn, etc. we just could not resist indulging the day before?
 
Nov 16, 2019
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"5who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time." - 1 Peter 1:5

Take the 'through faith' part out of the above verse and you no longer have the shield of God's power for salvation.
I'm not seeing the words "stop believing" or "no longer" here.
Don't tell me.
Tell the church who now says you can remove the 'through faith' part and you are still saved no matter what.

Take the 'through faith' part out of the above verse and you were never kept by the power of God for salvation.
You need to explain your old, obsolete version of osas to the multitude in the church who insist you don't have to continue in faith to continue to be saved. Their new osas has replaced your old osas.

Either we have faith and are saved and we are kept by the power of God or else we don't and are not and never were.
No, the Galatians really were saved and then stopped having faith in Christ for justification.
Your obsolete version of osas says that can't happen to saved people.
 

Phoneman-777

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2019
2,216
317
83
But when he stops cheating and mends the relations with his wife,
proves what?
It proves he loves her. "Hereby we do knoweth we loveth the wife, if we do not cheateth on her. He that saith, I loveth her, yet keepeth cheating on her is a liar and the truth is not in him." (1 John 2:3-4 KJV revised)
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
9,506
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I'm happy you agree that Jesus meant what He said when He said, "Go and sin no more". So, if OSAS is correct, then why bother us with all the warnings and admonitions, if in the end, Jesus is gonna just flip a switch in our brain on Judgment Day and make us hate all the pride, booze, porn, etc. we just could not resist indulging the day before?
Am I to understand YOU haven't committed a sin since claiming to be born again?
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
503
113
55
HBG. Pa. USA
Life is the trial, we have mountain top moments and valley tribulations , we win we lose, this is applicable to all men.
For me to say for someone a babe in Christ, who is struggling, or whatever your vice is, they are not saved......is surely
high above any flesh and blood creatures vocation to call that shot.

No comment on God JUSTIFYING the righteous?
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, EVEN AS HE is righteous.
(1Jn 3:7 KJV)

How was he righteous?

Hint.... Jesus said at one time " He doeth the work"

Who was He?

And what did Paul say in regards to us that was similar?
 

Phoneman-777

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2019
2,216
317
83
then in his heart he was never married.
glad you brought this up - i was going to, but i saw you are not married, in your profile, and thought i shouldn't make the analogy lest it offend you.


if you were married, would you do the things that make your wife happy because you are afraid she'll divorce you?
or would you please her because you love her, because all you want is to make her smile? would you know that it is 'till death' you never part? that she would never leave you?
would it be 'for better or for worse, in sickness and in health' ?
or would you come home from work every day wondering if she is going to embrace you or kick you out?


what would make you a better husband, anxiety and fear of separation?
or love, devotion and secure trust?


would the marriage vows be true vows -- or would they be empty promises dependent on her whims?

would you marry a woman who would leave you for any reason?
would you put her away when you find she's not much of a cook? clumsy? forgetful? a poor housekeeper?
how quick would you be to put her away, after you've promised to never do so?
Are you seriously claiming that every man that's ever turned his back on his wife for another woman was never in love with the first at all? The leaps in illogic that OSAS will make in order to establish it. smh
 

Phoneman-777

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2019
2,216
317
83
Am I to understand YOU haven't committed a sin since claiming to be born again?
To which kind of sin do you refer?
The Just man who falls seven times and rises up again or the Presumptuous Man that climbs down and gets comfortable in the filth and swats away the Divine hand of help while claiming "more than conqueror"?
Please clarify...if you see no distinction, then I'd suggest further Bible study.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
How vain you are. You are another one. Roll your eyes and slap your head as if you know something or this is a joke. The smugness of it all.
All look how many likes I got for being pompous. Oh gee look at me.


Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
(Mat 7:21-23 KJV)
It takes a lot more than vanity to come against your false gospel.

A salvation that can be lost is no salvation.

It does not exist.
Saved is saved

I prefer to be vain, if in fact I were, but am not, than teach a dogma completely contrary to scripture which makes Jesus and His work meaningless and place oneself as saviour instead.

Face it for what it is..but then that would require being honest :cautious:
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
9,506
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To which kind of sin do you refer?
The Just man who falls seven times and rises up again or the Presumptuous Man that climbs down and gets comfortable in the filth and swats away the Divine hand of help while claiming "more than conqueror"?
Please clarify...if you see no distinction, then I'd suggest further Bible study.
Well let's try this. The Bible says Hypocrisy is a sin. And certainly presumptuous sin.

Would you agree with that?
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
If we live a life of sin after we come to God without repenting we are not saved anymore or were not saved in the first place.
I should have done a lot more than roll my eyes at this statement.
btw...James makes it clear

For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.
James 2:10

I hope you keep an accurate list of all your transgressions, unless you are sinless?
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
503
113
55
HBG. Pa. USA
It takes a lot more than vanity to come against your false gospel.

A salvation that can be lost is no salvation.

It does not exist.
Saved is saved

I prefer to be vain, if in fact I were, but am not, than teach a dogma completely contrary to scripture which makes Jesus and His work meaningless and place oneself as saviour instead.

Face it for what it is..but then that would require being honest :cautious:
Still nothing I see.
What sin are you holding onto?
Never mind you already admitted to it, Vanity.

Look at me, look at me as I slap my head and roll my eyes.