Not By Works

[Bbrdrd]

I don’t pit anyone against anyone. I simply embrace the fullness of Jesus’ words in that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life.

As far as your question, it’s a double-barreled, nonsensical question. It’s like asking someone their thoughts as to why 2+2=3. The question in and of itself is categorically incorrect.

You're doing more than that, and it's a subtle poison. It's how you're casting belief that changes things. If one believes Jesus they will follow Him. They will recognize that salvation is not on their terms, but on His and He commands righteousness. He commands obedience.

 

[EleventhHour]

The SDA have some really weird ideas all from EG White such as the "The investigative judgment" - this is a bizarre concoction of tripe:

There is a sanctuary in heaven, the true tabernacle that the Lord set up and not humans. In it Christ ministers on our behalf, making available to believers the benefits of His atoning sacrifice offered once for all on the cross. At His ascension, He was inaugurated as our great High Priest and, began His intercessory ministry, which was typified by the work of the high priest in the holy place of the earthly sanctuary. In 1844, at the end of the prophetic period of 2300 days, He entered the second and last phase of His atoning ministry, which was typified by the work of the high priest in the most holy place of the earthly sanctuary. It is a work of investigative judgment which is part of the ultimate disposition of all sin, typified by the cleansing of the ancient Hebrew sanctuary on the Day of Atonement. In that typical service the sanctuary was cleansed with the blood of animal sacrifices, but the heavenly things are purified with the perfect sacrifice of the blood of Jesus. The investigative judgment reveals to heavenly intelligences who among the dead are asleep in Christ and therefore, in Him, are deemed worthy to have part in the first resurrection. It also makes manifest who among the living are abiding in Christ, keeping the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus, and in Him, therefore, are ready for translation into His everlasting kingdom. This judgment vindicates the justice of God in saving those who believe in Jesus. It declares that those who have remained loyal to God shall receive the kingdom. The completion of this ministry of Christ will mark the close of human probation before the Second Advent.

Source of confusion

Folks that believe this kind of malarkey will fall for anything. But then they are the source of the great disappointment when JC failed to return in 1844.

I see know where @Phoneman-777 is getting his ideas.

Sad, sad
And the whole idea whole idea of soul sleep ..more sad...

 

[miknik5]

I think we should all reread if not the full chapter of Ephesians, maybe Ephesians 2 through 4

 

[EleventhHour]

Is our faith not perfected in works? Is our faith not made complete by what we do? How can we say we have faith if we have no works?

First of all there is first the faith that saves ( apart from any and all works) and then scripture instructs on the walk of faith following salvation.
Again NOSAS muddle this up as well.

 

[EleventhHour]

I don’t pit anyone against anyone. I simply embrace the fullness of Jesus’ words in that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life.

As far as your question, it’s a double-barreled, nonsensical question. It’s like asking someone their thoughts as to why 2+2=3. The question in and of itself is categorically incorrect.

Agree, wrong question.

 

[azamzimtoti]

From the SDA "investigative judgment"

"It also makes manifest who among the living are abiding in Christ, keeping the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus, and in Him, therefore, are ready for translation into His everlasting kingdom."

We can toss out this bogus "doctrine" as it contradicts what Paul stated by inspiration:

(Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son)

What a great disappointment EG White is.

 

[EleventhHour]

OSAS isn't theological it's practical.

Well this would not be a good way to decide on what is truth.

You are much like @Judges1318 and @Phoneman-777 trying to infuse works and or/law into salvation by grace through faith alone apart from any and all works.

usually at the back end it so it not so obvious.. but it is still a works gospel.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Can someone explain Ephesians 2 to me?

which part sis?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Is our faith not perfected in works? Is our faith not made complete by what we do? How can we say we have faith if we have no works?

we cant. and I do not believe anyone is insisting we do

We are SAVED by faith

Our faith and our new life is what causes us to do works.

 

[EleventhHour]

From the SDA "investigative judgment"

"It also makes manifest who among the living are abiding in Christ, keeping the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus, and in Him, therefore, are ready for translation into His everlasting kingdom."

We can toss out this bogus "doctrine" as it contradicts what Paul stated by inspiration:

(Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son)

What a great disappointment EG White is.

A works dogma if I ever saw one..

Cults always are like this.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I think we should all reread if not the full chapter of Ephesians, maybe Ephesians 2 through 4

don't forget chapter 1.

Especially the first few verses. where Paul shows a child of God all the things they have already recieved as children of God

 

[Phoneman-777]

Um no, John said someone who lives in sin has never met God. Your claiming that a person can sin themselves out of salvation, meaning they knew God at one time, and then lost it.

You asked if Paul contradicts John, and I said no, they both teach the saints can forfeit salvation. Now you want proof, so here you go:
In Romans 6:16, Paul says to the saints who choose to give sin dominion over themselves that it's "unto death".
In 1 John 2: 24, John says, "Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father."

Now, 11th hour came up with that kooky idea that Paul's "unto death" ain't referring to spiritual death even though it's contrasted with "righteousness", a clearly spiritual concept. I'm sure you'll have something similar to show how if what we've "heard from the beginning" fails to "remain in" us, we can still "continue" in God, right?

John said a saint can not return to a life of sin

Nope, he said a saint "cannot sin". A backslider by definition is no longer a saint.

if you jump out. that must mean you did not trust the pilot now did you?

Really? What if the loving wife you kissed goodbye before boarding a bi-plane and sitting down behind a pilot in whom you placed your implicit trust - sends you a text of her flipping you off while running a train with 3 dudes, and you decide to end it all? Does that mean you never trusted the pilot? See what I did there?

 

[miknik5]

Who gave us the works to begin with? And again, when öur works"into the light, we can see what is wrought in GOD, can´t we?
So will we boast that we......worked for our salvation?

Never...

which part sis?

The part where it says that these works were prepared in advance that we should walk in...
Can we boast that these were our works even...or that GOD, for the perfecting of the saints, until we all reach the unity of FAITH (which is directed in and on CHRIST JESUS alone for salvation) prepared who HE prepared, and gave gifts according to HIS PURPOSE for HIS GLORY alone...

 

[Phoneman-777]

I think Luke 12 explains what will happen to that servant

Can you tell me which verse in Luke 12? thanks.

 

[miknik5]

don't forget chapter 1.

Especially the first few verses. where Paul shows a child of God all the things they have already recieved as children of God

Actually the whole of it as it explains that we are (supposed to be ) ONE BODY...and that we are all growing up into THE HEAD, who is CHRIST JESUS...

Itś just that not all of us have grown up...

 

[Bbrdrd]

First of all there is first the faith that saves ( apart from any and all works) and then scripture instructs on the walk of faith following salvation.
Again NOSAS muddle this up as well.

Where do you get this notion that there are two faiths? Faith is faith, and it's a response to the saving work not the instigator. The ones muddling it up are the ones who think God is mocked by justifying their ungodliness rather than justifying them so they can leave the ungodliness behind. What's muddled it up is the idea that Jesus' blood removed our guilt and culpability for our actions. God is a just God and will judge men according to their deeds.

 

[miknik5]

Can you tell me which verse in Luke 12? thanks.

Yes the servant who can´t wait for HIS MASTER, who begins to beat his own servants...if he, this spiritual giant, knew HIS MASTERś GOOD WILL, he will receive more stripes than the servant who didn´t know and did the things that deserve stripes

 

[Bbrdrd]

we cant. and I do not believe anyone is insisting we do

We are SAVED by faith

Our faith and our new life is what causes us to do works.

Some are, actually. Why would they accuse me of preaching a "works gospel" if they're not denying that works are a part of salvation? Not the cause, but a result I agree but still necessary.

 

[Phoneman-777]

I did not know that the SDA also believe that only past sins are atoned for by the cross and after conversion all sins must continually be repented of to secure salvation?

Is that what you believe?

Really go back to the Baptist Church ... seriously that is as false a doctrine as there can be.

We got it from the Bible..Paul says the Cross takes care of "sins that are past". Of course, you think it means "sins that are past the point of affecting our salvation" which is the core philosophy of OSAS: "Salvation doesn't change me, just God's opinion of the sin that remains in me."

 

[Phoneman-777]

Yes the servant who can wait for HIS MASTER, who begins to beat his own servants...if he, this spiritual giant, knew HIS MASTERś GOOD WILL, he will receive more stripes than the servant who didn´t know

thanks, I'll read it later, but gotta get out the door now