Not By Works

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Apr 2, 2020
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That wasn't the reason HE rose from the dead...HE rose from the dead not on the account of showing that the men of the law were wrong...

HE laid down and took up HIS LIFE...and did so willingly for those who would believe....no man TOOK IT FROM HIM...

Further, the RESURRECTION was to show us THAT HE LIVES...that HE conquered death...that HE is indeed the SON of GOD, not in the human sense, but by THE SPIRIT, GOD...and HE, who came forth from GOD, opened the WAY for us...for all who come to THE FATHER, through HIM....by, and I repeat....ONE SPIRIT...

ONE SPIRIT, sir...

When was CHRIST of THAT SPIRIT...

Before or after?
We're getting into the weeds of opinion here so I'll traverse no farther.
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
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What would you call "he took the penalty I deserved"? Penal substitution, as presented by protestants, calls to do exactly that. To glory in His sufferings rather than recognizing the injustice of it. The great exchange does exactly that, by placing the guilt of your sins onto Him so that you can be "deemed righteous". The point of the cross is to bring us to the point where we recognize that our answer to God's question to Job is yes and to be ashamed of it. Those who recognize this are set free because God shows that He truly is just.
This is a wrong understanding...this revelation is a cut to the HEART revelation sir...it is a drop on your knees understanding of the EXTENT of your sin and how, by THE CROSS, CHRIST did for us what we could not do for ourselves...

That sir, is THE TRUE CIRCUMCISION...not outwardly, but inwardly...upon THE HEART...where it belonged from the beginning.
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
We're getting into the weeds of opinion here so I'll traverse no farther.

This can be a very good thing. :)

And I state this in the best possible way... some entanglements are simply draining.
I hope and pray that you put the Gospel all together soon.
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
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This can be a very good thing. :)

And I state this in the best possible way... some entanglements are simply draining.
I hope and pray that you put the Gospel all together soon.
I will continue to respond to posts that are addressed to me..

I ask you to refrain from posting indifferent emojis and verbal comments that do nothing for the conversation between myself and another poster.

Thank you
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
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HE WAS RAISED FOR OUR JUSTIFICATION


Not weeds

Romans 4 and Romans 10
 
Nov 16, 2019
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.
Your doctrine states that Christ Jesus does not save.... what bigger hole is there than that one?
Your osas says you can stop believing and you are still saved.
Lt. mailmandan's osas says believers can't stop believing.
I've shown where the Bible makes it impossible to believe either one of these.

I find your doctrine especially loathsome.
(Not you, your doctrine. So don't get offended.)
At least his defends the necessity to have to continue to believe to be saved when Jesus comes back, and the necessity to live in holiness.
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
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The first has to do with what the second "sin" is, which is a sin offering. To answer that question we have to go to Leviticus and examine its theology. The principle issue there is not guilt, but uncleanness/impurity. They had a unclean-common-clean theology and the blood was used to cleanse the implements of the temple of the stain that sin had left behind. So Christ becoming our sin offering means He cleanses us from the stain that our sin entailed

The second is about recognizing that righteousness comes not according to the law, but faith in Christ.
This is what I was referring to...
These things in the temple were just the shadows of the REALITIES FOUND IN CHRIST JESUS
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
The two go hand in hand, but not the way it seems you've been arguing it. The second sin in the verse you quoted does not mean He made sin a tangible object but that He became a sin offering. And our understanding of that has to come from the Bible which is presented in leviticus and has nothing to do with guilt. The penalty for sin was not a just penalty imposed by God but the unrighteous wages of a blind destructive force.
I do not know where you come up with this stuff

But this is exactly why people are questioning you

people have shown you passage after passage after passage trying to explain this to you. For some reason you keep fighting it.

Gal 3 makes it clear what the law did, It was a schoolmaster to lead us to Christ.

It shows that the law brings a curse to everyone, because no one has fulfilled the law

it shows that Christ became a curse for us, so that all people, who have the faith of abraham can be offered the same salvation

what jesus did on the cross. and pay the penalty or take the curse, or redeem us from the penalty of sin.

When jesus said it is finished. the greek word is tetellisti, that is a juditial term, It literally means paid in full. When a person paid his debt, he received a certificate which had that same saying on it, so that anyone who questioned, could see his debt was "paid in full"
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
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Both the innocent and God. What Job spoke rashly about isn't that he was righteous and innocent, God declared that before Job was ever subject to the devil. Instead Job questioned whether there was such a thing as justice in the world. He doubted God and was reproved for that, but the basic thrust of his protests was vindicated.
GOD declared Job righteous and innocent?

Could you please reread what you wrote?
 
Apr 2, 2020
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HE WAS RAISED FOR OUR JUSTIFICATION


Not weeds

Romans 4 and Romans 10
That's exactly what I'm saying. He was raised to justify/vindicate the righteous. He reveals God's judgment is just and that though we see injustice in this world we can trust that final judgment will show those whose faith is in God have placed their faith in the right place.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Please Check my site with an UPDATED short Video. YOU WILL LIKE the new info that I found. Conclusive EVIDENCE presented by the Original Israeli Archaeologist.
you talking about the temple thread?
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
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That's exactly what I'm saying. He was raised to justify/vindicate the righteous. He reveals God's judgment is just and that though we see injustice in this world we can trust that final judgment will show those whose faith is in God have placed their faith in the right place.
No...You do not believe John 6
You have made HIM to be a man, who after HIS crucifixion, had to come before GOD, in order to somehow obtain authority and Kingship...but that authority and Kingship was given HIM even before HIS crucifixion

And that is the problem...
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
In a sense. Christ was judged by men, deemed to be speaking blasphemy under their understanding of Deuteronomy 13 and condemned. Yet He was innocent and rose from the dead on that account. It is the resurrection that takes our faith, believing that God can raise a man from the dead despite the seeming permanence of the grave.
what????
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
That's exactly what I'm saying. He was raised to justify/vindicate the righteous. He reveals God's judgment is just and that though we see injustice in this world we can trust that final judgment will show those whose faith is in God have placed their faith in the right place.
um no,

He was raised to justify and vindicate the sinner..
 
Nov 16, 2019
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Obedience needs to come from a place of rest, liberty and love .. this is what pleases God.
And so if I'm being desperately tempted to steal out of the cash register at work, or commit adultery with the new hot female clerk they just hired I should not resist and wait for the day I can obey God out of love and not just obligation?

Serious question.
Don't blow it off.
I want to know how I'm supposed to respond according to your doctrine.

Only a person assured of their salvation is in a place of rest.
The rest from sin comes before assurance because assurance of salvation comes from your behavior.
Note, don't confuse 'security' of salvation with 'assurance' of salvation in what I just wrote.

Assurance of salvation comes from what you do and how you're changed/ changing.
That's why people start threads wondering if King Solomon was really saved or not.
We wonder because of how he lived his life at the end.
Obedience is ALWAYS equated with salvation.
The person who is still a baby in regard to obedience is the one struggles with assurance of salvation.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
This may be my last word on this, but by no means. He came to call sinner's to repentance not to vindicate them.
Correct. I was just using the term you used.

He came to justify sinners.

He did not come to vindicate ANYONE.

I am glad you saw that
 
Apr 2, 2020
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Correct. I was just using the term you used.

He came to justify sinners.

He did not come to vindicate ANYONE.

I am glad you saw that
You may be reading more into what I'm saying than is intended. Perhaps meditating on why Jesus chose to use David's violating the law as a positive example in Luke 6 and Mark 2 to defend His righteousness may shed some light on things.