Not By Works

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Jan 25, 2015
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Those on here who "attack", bully those of us who believe in eternal salvation once and for all, are trying to twist and turn our words to suit their own doctrine(s).
Unfortunately this is true of all parties involved on CC. You do not mention the word law because then you have to do works to enter the Kingdom. Mention Leviticus and you open a can of worms. Thing is we all have truths and if we accommodate each other’s views we might come to the conclusion that we are actually agreeing more than we disagree. Satan is using this thread and website to sow discord amongst God’s followers and even if we are not doing it purposefully we are sometimes guilty of fitting the bill.

Even Peter was an instrument of that when Jesus rebuked him Matthew 16:23.

God bless friends
 

EleventhHour

Well-known member
Nov 11, 2019
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What is it about 'things that accompany salvation' that you do not understand?
In the end, fruitless, barren fields don't accompany salvation.
Fruitfulness does.
The passage says so.
So now in order to be saved we have to bear fruit.... so we are saved by the fruit we bear.

Ephesians 2:8....states otherwise
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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I have Bradford pear tress , they put leaves on weeks ago.

though they are pear trees, they bear no fruit.

now, I have a pecan tree, ( not fruit, but still works the same way), it is just now getting blooms.

so, if one judges things by outward appearance, then one be dead wrong about bearing fruit.

just like judges is wrong in his judgemental belief system.
 
Nov 24, 2019
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Virginia
www.youtube.com
Ishtar, Babylonian fertility goddess. Jesus didn't come to start the Christian religion. Manmade religion is always combining the sacred and the profane. Demons know He died and rose again but they reject holiness, the Kingdom of God and the preeminence of the Holy Spirit. Sound like Christianity at all?

"Easter" has helped obscure what the fulfillment of Christ as our Passover is intended to do in our lives. We must come out of Egypt. We must come through the water. We must receive the pillar of fire/cloud, moving only at His direction, following Him wholeheartedly so that we can go in and take this Land of Promises found in the Word of God. His Kingdom must come. His will must be done on earth - and by us - just as it is done in heaven. The Lord Jesus didn't come for a day to be celebrated once a year, for buildings to be built, for children to wear pretty dresses and hunt fertility symbols in the tall grass. Satan tosses his head back in gleeful laughter. Jesus didn't come for us to sit in a pew an hour and a half a week and look at the back of someone's head, stand up, sit down, stand up sit down, listen to "the pastor" lecture and walk out until we do it again next week. It's all an inspired mockery.

The Bible is our Constitution. God tells us to pray without stopping, that His Word is always to be on our lips, to do nothing on our own initiative, to stop sinning, that a man's hair is to be short and woman's long. To eagerly desire spiritual gifts, especially the gift of prophecy. To be perfect. That the husband in the head of the wife just as Christ is the Head of the Church. That a church in a locality consists solely of men who are elders, of deacons (servers) and sheep. And on and on with many things "God's people" reject and that are alien to them.

Sola Scriptura. Jesus Christ is Lord and our spiritual act of worship is the presentation of our bodies to Him as living sacrifices. Yes, He is Head over ALL things for His (true) Church. Narrow is the gate and difficult the Way to life, and few are they that find it.

Acts 12:4 KJV

92017729_10158130040257438_2525668137026715648_o.jpg
 

Micaiah-imla

Well-known member
Feb 29, 2020
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So now in order to be saved we have to bear fruit.... so we are saved by the fruit we bear.
Here's another way:

Take heed unto yourself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this you shall both save yourself, and them that hear you (1 Timothy 4:16).
 

Judges1318

Well-known member
Nov 16, 2019
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So now in order to be saved we have to bear fruit.... so we are saved by the fruit we bear.

Ephesians 2:8....states otherwise
Fruit is the expected and obligatory sign that accompanies salvation.
Just as being wet is the expected and obligatory sign of having gone swimming.

Are you familiar with the two main 'signs' in the old covenant?

Just as physical circumcision was the sign of being born into the nation of Israel, so it is that spiritual circumcision (the putting off of the deeds of the flesh) is the sign of being born into the kingdom of God.

Just as Sabbath keeping was the sign of the obedient resident of Israel, so it is that entering into the spiritual Sabbath (rest from the taskmaster of sin) is the sign of the obedient resident of the household of Christ.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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Fruit is the expected and obligatory sign that accompanies salvation.
Just as being wet is the expected and obligatory sign of having gone swimming.

Are you familiar with the two main 'signs' in the old covenant?

Just as physical circumcision was the sign of being born into the nation of Israel, so it is that spiritual circumcision (the putting off of the deeds of the flesh) is the sign of being born into the kingdom of God.

Just as Sabbath keeping was the sign of the obedient resident of Israel, so it is that entering into the spiritual Sabbath (rest from the taskmaster of sin) is the sign of the obedient resident of the household of Christ.
I proved your judgemental system wrong again, using nature that God created to do so.

care to acknowledge that?
 

Judges1318

Well-known member
Nov 16, 2019
3,051
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I have Bradford pear tress , they put leaves on weeks ago.

though they are pear trees, they bear no fruit.

now, I have a pecan tree, ( not fruit, but still works the same way), it is just now getting blooms.

so, if one judges things by outward appearance, then one be dead wrong about bearing fruit.

just like judges is wrong in his judgemental belief system.
"8But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned." - Hebrews 6:8


‘For three years now I’ve been coming to look for fruit on this fig tree and haven’t found any. Cut it down! Why should it use up the soil?’
8“ ‘Sir,’ the man replied, ‘leave it alone for one more year, and I’ll dig around it and fertilize it. 9If it bears fruit next year, fine! If not, then cut it down.’ - Luke 13:7-9


"In the end", gb9, "in the end".
God knows that fruit is the mature growth of a planting and that it takes time to get to maturity.
But if you or I think we can live out our 70 or 80 years of life and arrive at the Judgment without the fruit of the mature believer we are kidding ourselves.
All we'd be doing is showing ourselves to not be the plantings of God we claim to be.
 

Judges1318

Well-known member
Nov 16, 2019
3,051
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I proved your judgemental system wrong again, using nature that God created to do so.

care to acknowledge that?
The Bible proves your fruitless salvation to be wrong.
For your own sake, man, acknowledge it and grow up in Christ and be ready for His appearing!
 

Judges1318

Well-known member
Nov 16, 2019
3,051
747
113
Unfortunately this is true of all parties involved on CC. You do not mention the word law because then you have to do works to enter the Kingdom. Mention Leviticus and you open a can of worms. Thing is we all have truths and if we accommodate each other’s views we might come to the conclusion that we are actually agreeing more than we disagree. Satan is using this thread and website to sow discord amongst God’s followers and even if we are not doing it purposefully we are sometimes guilty of fitting the bill.

Even Peter was an instrument of that when Jesus rebuked him Matthew 16:23.

God bless friends
If persuading people to grow up in Christ and leave their baby milk doctrines of salvation behind is sowing discord then I am indeed an agent of satan sowing discord among God's followers.

So many puffed up people here who think osas is the epitome of knowing God don't know as they ought:

“We all possess knowledge.” But knowledge puffs up while love builds up. 2Those who think they know something do not yet know as they ought to know. " - 1 Corinthians 8:1-2

You show that you know God by how you act, not by possessing baby milk knowledge about salvation.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Here's another way:

Take heed unto yourself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this you shall both save yourself, and them that hear you (1 Timothy 4:16).
I have not heard this verse cited in a while. I used to hear people who attend the church of Christ cite this verse in an effort to prove that we literally save ourselves by getting water baptized. (Acts 2:38-40) But of course, that's not true.

In regards to 1 Timothy 4:16, we are not passive in perservering in our faith, but it's not in our own power that we perservere. God alone saves, but "in a sense" we save ourselves and others through perserverance in sound doctrine, as we continue to believe the gospel and are used as God's instruments to bring about the salvation of others through preaching the gospel to them as well.

If you fell into a well with no way out and someone threw down and rope and pulled you out, "in a sense" you can say that you "saved yourself" by choosing to grab and hold onto the rope until that person pulled you out, but ultimately, the person who pulled you out of the well saved you and ultimately, it is Jesus Christ who saves us.
 

Micaiah-imla

Well-known member
Feb 29, 2020
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persuading people to grow up in Christ
Absolutely consistent with scripture:

Speaking the truth in love may grow up into him in all things (Ephesians 4:15).

As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby (1 Peter 2:2).

Grow in grace (2 Peter 3:18).
 

Micaiah-imla

Well-known member
Feb 29, 2020
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I used to hear people who attend the church of Christ cite this verse in an effort to prove that we literally save ourselves by getting water baptized.
Even baptism doth also now save us (1 Peter 3:21).

I was not implying anything about baptism in my previous scripture citation, but it's all good.
 

Micaiah-imla

Well-known member
Feb 29, 2020
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If you fell into a well with no way out and someone threw down and rope and pulled you out, "in a sense" you can say that you "saved yourself" by choosing to grab and hold onto the rope until that person pulled you out, but ultimately, the person who pulled you out of the well saved you and ultimately, it is Jesus Christ who saves us.
By continuing in the doctrine we save ourselves from the lake of fire. God's ultimate concern is for your eternal well being. This is understood because many saints are allowed to be killed for Christ's sake. Why not save all saints from all earthly harm then?

Christ provided the means of obtaining a clean record, which is impossible to do without his resurrection, which must be believed by a person to receive the imputation of this clean record. Now we must strive to maintain a clean record in a pure conscience before God.

And herein do I [Paul] exercise myself, to have always a conscience void of offense toward God, and toward men (Acts 24:16).
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
7,524
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The Bible proves your fruitless salvation to be wrong.
For your own sake, man, acknowledge it and grow up in Christ and be ready for His appearing!
By continuing in the doctrine we save ourselves from the lake of fire. God's ultimate concern is for your eternal well being. This is understood because many saints are allowed to be killed for Christ's sake. Why not save all saints from all earthly harm then?

Christ provided the means of obtaining a clean record, which is impossible to do without his resurrection, which must be believed by a person to receive the imputation of this clean record. Now we must strive to maintain a clean record in a pure conscience before God.

And herein do I [Paul] exercise myself, to have always a conscience void of offense toward God, and toward men (Acts 24:16).
grown, mature Christians do not want to go around and judge others on outward appearances .

that is what juveniles do, run around and shout judgement on others and ignore their own sins and shortcomings .

so, maybe judge your own works, and deal with your own sins?
 

Micaiah-imla

Well-known member
Feb 29, 2020
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325
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grown, mature Christians do not want to go around and judge others on outward appearances .

that is what juveniles do, run around and shout judgement on others and ignore their own sins and shortcomings .

so, maybe judge your own works, and deal with your own sins?
Why the hostility?

Scripture was quoted. Do you have a problem with the scriptures that say the same things we are saying?

I sense this is why a lot of christians stop reading their Bibles. Every so often those problem verses disturb their comfort zones.

Just my opinion.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Even baptism doth also now save us (1 Peter 3:21).

I was not implying anything about baptism in my previous scripture citation, but it's all good.
I know that your implication in your previous citation was not about baptism. Speaking of baptism, why did you cite 1 Peter 3:21?
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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By continuing in the doctrine we save ourselves from the lake of fire. God's ultimate concern is for your eternal well being. This is understood because many saints are allowed to be killed for Christ's sake. Why not save all saints from all earthly harm then?

Christ provided the means of obtaining a clean record, which is impossible to do without his resurrection, which must be believed by a person to receive the imputation of this clean record. Now we must strive to maintain a clean record in a pure conscience before God.

And herein do I [Paul] exercise myself, to have always a conscience void of offense toward God, and toward men (Acts 24:16).
Those who continue in sound doctrine demonstrate that faith was firmly rooted and established. Faith that saves from the lake of fire continues and is not some shallow, temporary belief that has no root, produces no fruit and withers away. In regards to Acts 24:16, the apostle Paul did strive to have a conscience without offense toward God and men and so should all believers.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Because, incidentally, that verse came into my mind when I read your post.
People who attend the church of Christ will not hesitate to use 1 Peter 3:21 as a proof text that we are saved by water baptism, but I'm yet to hear you make that claim.