Not By Works

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mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Check which post of yours I was responding to.

You asked me those questions last year and I responded, as you said yesterday you seemed to remember. You seemed condescending. I'm careful with pearls.

But I think you can hear the Good News I'm talking about in what I just wrote; didn't really talk about the death part but I did touch on the resurrection part, through which Jesus Christ becomes King of our lives. Jesus Christ is One to speak in parables 'so that seeing they may not see.' Nevertheless, I've said it explicitly many times before on this thread and The Way, Which Gospel and My Conversion.
You still have not sufficiently answered my questions and your responses still sound vague and ambiguous. Not trying to be condescending. Just looking for you to sufficiently answers my questions.
 
Nov 24, 2019
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You still have not sufficiently answered my questions and your responses still sound vague and ambiguous. Not trying to be condescending. Just looking for you to sufficiently answers my questions.
I believe that I have sufficiently answered your questions and that I'm being neither vague nor ambiguous but rather that your ears are uncircumcised and you cannot hear. The dark spiritual force over the western christian church is very strong. Yet, hopefully, I will have a chance to respond to your other post to me soon.
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
I believe that I have sufficiently answered your questions and that I'm being neither vague nor ambiguous but rather that your ears are uncircumcised and you cannot hear. The dark spiritual force over the western christian church is very strong. Yet, hopefully, I will have a chance to respond to your other post to me soon.
Can we state then, that this new "Gospel of the Kingdom" is one where the members achieve the state of sinlessness?
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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I believe that I have sufficiently answered your questions and that I'm being neither vague nor ambiguous but rather that your ears are uncircumcised and you cannot hear. The dark spiritual force over the western christian church is very strong. Yet, hopefully, I will have a chance to respond to your other post to me soon.
I believe that you have NOT sufficiently answered my questions and now you are basically telling me that I can’t hear because I’m lost and you also have a big problem with the western Christian church. Who are you to judge me and the Church? Do you claim to be a prophet?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Can we state then, that this new "Gospel of the Kingdom" is one where the members achieve the state of sinlessness?
so are you saying he does not think he never does anything out of selfish ambition. not even once? That he has agape love for everyone including his enemy, 24/7?
 
Nov 16, 2019
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Faith is either firmly rooted and established and it continues or else it is not firmly rooted and established and it does not continue.
That is right.
What I resist is the doctrine that says if it is not deeply rooted it's categorically fake believing.
Simple observation shows this to be false.
There is strong faith, and there is weak faith.

Fall doesn't necessarily mean you never get back up (Proverbs 24:16)
Yes.
What it doesn't mean is you were never saved to begin with.
But that is what the old osas doctrine says.
That's how it interprets 1 John 2:19.
Osas can't have it both ways.

Romans 11 is discussing collective ecclesiology and not individual soteriology. No loss of salvation here.
It has to be about salvation, especially in your doctrine.
For the collective to fall away the individuals making up the whole have to fall away. In old school osas for an individual to fall away means you were never saved to begin with. So this is most definitely talking about salvation. And it's about loss of salvation, because he's talking to those who have faith and how they should fear. I'm not in the business of fearing for the welfare of saved and unsaved gentiles as a whole, are you? He's talking to believers maintaining the status quo, not unbelievers.
 
Apr 3, 2019
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I believe that you have NOT sufficiently answered my questions and now you are basically telling me that I can’t hear because I’m lost and you also have a big problem with the western Christian church. Who are you to judge me and the Church? Do you claim to be a prophet?

Quit with the "satanically charged" persistent requests for clarification Dan - how dare you.

BigSmile.gif
 
Nov 16, 2019
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He causes us to be willing; Psalm 110:3. This continues post conversion; Philippians 2:12-13.
He does.
By seeding and watering the soil of men's hearts those who will love righteousness will be revealed, and those who will not love righteousness are revealed.

Our differences lie in the matter of where the capacity for loving righteousness, or hating it, comes from.
You say God purposely creates soil designed ahead of time to hate righteousness when exposed to it, and purposely creates other soil to love righteousness when exposed to it.
No, the capacity to either love or hate righteousness lies within the soil itself.
God simply brings out and reveals whatever potential lies in a person's soil by graciously planting and watering it.
Some ground produces fruit that endures, other ground won't.
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
so are you saying he does not think he never does anything out of selfish ambition. not even once? That he has agape love for everyone including his enemy, 24/7?
He never gives a direct answer .. so not sure... leans that way though.
Definitely a works dogma.
 
Nov 16, 2019
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It comes down to is God faithful or not.

Why would we lose faith if God remains faithful?

Of course we would not..
If this is the response to God's faithfulness, why doesn't everybody believe then?
If what you say is true, then even the unbeliever would not turn away from God, because He is faithful.
 
Nov 16, 2019
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What is your definition of Freegrace religion?
It says anyone who has believed in the past is always saved because not even going back to willful unbelief and a complete rejection of God and Christ can cause them to lose their salvation.
IOW, they say grace is indeed a license to sin, if the one who had believed in the past so chooses to use it that way.

Apart from the osas part itself, the new osas is completely and utterly contrary to the old osas belief.
So contrary that I can't believe old style osas believers make no attempt to call it out.
I've seen them acknowledge that it exists, but I've not seen any attempt to bring them around to the old school Calvinist based osas beliefs like they try to bring non-osas to Calvin's osas beliefs.
 
Nov 24, 2019
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This is enjoyable. "Christianity vs. the Kingdom of God", indeed.

Properly understood, salvation is a change of government: from under Satan to under Jesus Christ via the Holy Spirit. That is a central thing He showed us in Exodus. Christ is our Passover, we apply the blood, our slavery was to sin, we came through the waters of baptism and have received the baptism with the Holy Spirit - which is why John said He came - and now He is our Lord, Head over all things to us. The sons of God are those who are being led by the Spirit of God.

Whoever has a problem with the proceeding paragraph has the spirit of antichrist at work within them.

Jesus didn't come to start Christianity. Denominations are a work of the flesh, which those who belong to Christ have crucified, as it is written. A problem with the Christian church is its millions of heads.
 
Nov 16, 2019
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He says God's faithfulness is so compelling that no believer would forsake it, and so for that reason believers are 'once saved always saved'. IOW, they can't leave by the force and attraction of God's faithfulness. Because that would be stupid for them to leave.

If it's that compelling, why isn't everybody, including unbelievers, smitten beyond remedy by it, too?
 
Nov 16, 2019
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They teach salvation by works AND OSAS together? :unsure:
No, they are a false religion that DOESN'T teach non-osas. It's defies your unfair generalization of non-osas believers that believing in non-osas is a red flag for the presence of the works gospel in their beliefs.

Osas'ers have this problem with not being able to see that being non-osas does not mean you also have to believe in salvation by the merit of works.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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It is also written that God would have all men to be saved and to come of the knowledge of the truth, is it not? And if God would have all men to be saved, couldn’t he just draw all men unto him?

It seems you want to void out one scripture in favor of another. I let both stand a let the Spirit decide when to use either one for whatever purpose the Spirit chooses.

My own mind has no influence on me, the word of God in my heart does.
are all saved?

you have put a single verse expressing God's desire, and i have put 20 verses showing what God Himself says He Himself does.
how then can you say, i am the one voiding out one scripture in favor of another?


you cannot hear Him unless He gives you an ear that can hear; no one can. no one seeks God, and no one understands, and no one is good. the Shepherd has sheep, knows them, and goes out to gather them to Himself.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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He says God's faithfulness is so compelling that no believer would forsake it, and so for that reason believers are 'once saved always saved'. IOW, they can't leave by the force and attraction of God's faithfulness. Because that would be stupid for them to leave.

If it's that compelling, why isn't everybody, including unbelievers, smitten beyond remedy by it, too?
The LORD has made all for Himself, yes, even the wicked for the day of doom.
(Proverbs 16:4)