Not By Works

[Micaiah-imla]

I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand.

And if we have a full knowledge of scripture we become aware that the “them” and “they” referred to here are those who:

Not only believe on Him, but also suffer for his sake (Philippians 1:29).

Have ceased from sin through suffering (1 Peter 4:1).

Who have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts (Galatians 5:24).

Follow in his example of suffering and sinlessness (1 Peter 2:21-22).

And I can cite more, but I don’t have time to do that at this moment.

 

[Micaiah-imla]

I know she is QUITE capable of DEFENDING her OSAS DOCTRINAL BELIEFS. But I have it saved on my computer. THERE ARE LOTS MORE VERSES THAT SUPPORT ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED than I have here, AS TRUTH, SO THIS SHOULD BE SUFFICIENT:

I am not saying that salvation is obtained by works; I never said that.

I never disagreed with the fact that the law is kept by love through the Spirit.

What I AM saying is that your conduct AFTER receiving the knowledge of the gospel does affect your salvation (2 Peter 2:20).

 

[Lightskin]

Well we all know you would never make it ... every time you saw a sign that read "BEER" that is where you would be.

Ice Cold Beer! Sinners saved by grace through faith are all welcomed. 😎😀❤️🙏🍺

 

[Micaiah-imla]

and it been established you use them out of context

Yes, out of the “context” of the Once Saved, Always saved doctrine.

Not out of biblical context.

 

[azamzimtoti]

Well we all know you would never make it ... every time you saw a sign that read "BEER" that is where you would be.

And not even free Beer at that.

 

[mailmandan]

I am not saying that salvation is obtained by works; I never said that.

I never disagreed with the fact that the law is kept by love through the Spirit.

What I AM saying is that your conduct AFTER receiving the knowledge of the gospel does affect your salvation (2 Peter 2:20).

Those who are truly born of God have received a divine nature (2 Peter 1:4) and they have been transformed from pigs and dogs into sheep. The change is more than merely cosmetic, as in 2 Peter 2:20.

Having the knowledge of Jesus Christ does not save a person if there is no heart submission to that knowledge. The latter end is worse than the beginning for these men because rejecting this knowledge will make them more accountable at the judgment

 

[Micaiah-imla]

Those who are truly born of God have received a divine nature (2 Peter 1:4) and they have been transformed from pigs and dogs into sheep

So do sheep occasionally do “dog” things? Or cease from their former dog nature?

 

[mailmandan]

So do sheep occasionally do “dog” things? Or cease from their former dog nature?

These cleaned up on the outside dogs and pigs were never sheep.

 

[VCO]

I am not saying that salvation is obtained by works; I never said that.

I never disagreed with the fact that the law is kept by love through the Spirit.

What I AM saying is that your conduct AFTER receiving the knowledge of the gospel does affect your salvation (2 Peter 2:20).

NO, you have got that last line BACKWARDS.

HE Gives you a Born Again, Human Spirit. At the same time HE immerses You into the Spiritual Body of Christ.

That Changes your Human Spirit from once DEAD, to ETERNALLY ALIVE, with NEW Wants and Desires, that were NEVER PART OF YOUR BODY BEFORE. Therefore you can now THINK with your Human Spirit, as well as your BRAIN. Your Human Spirit will DOMINATE the Will of the FLESH, more often than not. AS YOUR HUMAN SPIRIT gets Stronger and Stronger, you will sin LESS, and LESS, and LESS. When confronted with life's decisions, YOUR Human Spirit that is DOMINATED by the Mind of you Human Spirit, instead of the Human Mind, that VICTORY is controlled by the Human Spirit, and YOU WILL WANT TO DO WHAT PLEASES GOD.

You on the other hand HAVE the DEEDS pulling the Carnal Mind that lies between your ears along path the no mention of a Human Spiritual Mind existing. ARE YOU TRULY BORN AGAIN?

We let our Human Spiritual Mind control most of the time, what the Body Does. THAT Human Spiritual Mind, IS THE HORSE THAT controls what our Body does out of AGAPE LOVE. You have the CART AHEAD OF THE HORSE, and I think the HORSE IS STILL DEAD.

I know I have showed you this truth before. But You still have not understood it.

John 14:15 (HCSB)
15 “If you love Me {Born Again = SAVED at the moment you BELIEVE}, you will keep My commands.
{You have the Horse behind the WILL KEEP, BUT the Horse is still dead, NOT Eternally Alive.}

Because YOU WERE SAVED at the MOMENT YOU BELIEVED, you will want to keep HIS commands, no and's, if's, or maybe's. It is part of your NEW NATURE of YOUR Born Again Human Spirit. Are we Perfect? Sadly No, but we are the ONES WHO STRIVE TO BE OBEDIENT after SALVATION, not before.

Father, Help him to understand this!

 

[BillG]

I am not saying that salvation is obtained by works; I never said that.

I never disagreed with the fact that the law is kept by love through the Spirit.

What I AM saying is that your conduct AFTER receiving the knowledge of the gospel does affect your salvation (2 Peter 2:20).

2 Peter 2:20
20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning.

So do sheep occasionally do “dog” things? Or cease from their former dog nature?

Do you still do things as a sheep? Have you ceased from your dog nature 100%

How is salvation obtained?

Is it 100% non willful sin?

Or is it a decrease of wilfully sinning and an increase in not wilfully sinning?

Dogs need to be trained and even when they have they still have a tendency to follow their nature. I know I have 3. When they do so I pull them back in but I never let them of the lead.

Sheep go astray.

 

[Micaiah-imla]

That Changes your Human Spirit once DEAD, to ETERNALLY ALIVE, with NEW Wants and Desires, that were NEVER PART OF YOUR BODY BEFORE. Therefore you can now THINK with your Human Spirit, as well as your BRAIN. Your Human Spirit will DOMINATE the Will of the FLESH, more often than not. AS YOUR HUMAN SPIRIT gets Stronger and Stronger, you will sin LESS, and LESS, and LESS. When confronted with life's decisions, YOUR Human Spirit that is DOMINATED by the Mind of you Human Spirit, instead of the Human Mind, the VICTORY is controlled by the Human Spirit, and YOU WILL WANT TO DO WHAT PLEASES GOD

This is correct. But it’s the sins committed in ignorance that we commit less and less. A born again believer will not commit a Willful blatant sin; he will not obey the desires of the flesh and of the mind. He has crucified the flesh.

Ephesians 2:2-3
[2] Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: [3] Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Galatians 5:24
[24] And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

 

[Finepearl]

Then the opposite is true by rules of logic " no works, no salvation"

So then we are saved by our works, that is contrary to what scripture states.

Not so. No faith no salvation. I can only assume you have not read my previous posts carefully or you would not make such a comment. I can only reiterate - faith needs to be a living faith demonstrated by works or that faith will be viewed as inactive, dead. Not my words but those of James 2:24, 26. In your previous post you quoted John 6:28,29 highlighting the need for belief in Christ. If you feel belief or faith in Jesus does not include works in demonstration of that faith, then you must feel John and James are contradicting one another. Is this what you feel that the scriptures contradict one another? If you don’t believe this, then I look forward to hearing your understanding of the verses cited.

 

[EleventhHour]

Not so. No faith no salvation. I can only assume you have not read my previous posts carefully or you would not make such a comment. I can only reiterate - faith needs to be a living faith demonstrated by works or that faith will be viewed as inactive, dead. Not my words but those of James 2:24, 26. In your previous post you quoted John 6:28,29 highlighting the need for belief in Christ. If you feel belief or faith in Jesus does not include works in demonstration of that faith, then you must feel John and James are contradicting one another. Is this what you feel that the scriptures contradict one another? If you don’t believe this, then I look forward to hearing your understanding of the verses cited.

No contradictions
For the most part James is addressing faith that is evidence before man, not saving faith.
James is writing to believers, nowhere do his letters lay out the plan of salvation, that is not where he concern lays.
Inactive exactly........ just because a bike is missing its wheels it does mean the bike does not exist, it is just not be used and demonstrated.

 

[Susanna]

Ice Cold Beer! Sinners saved by grace through faith are all welcomed. 😎😀❤️🙏🍺

Only if I can bring Jim Beam😁.

 

[EleventhHour]

No faith no salvation.

The object of our faith Jesus Christ, He saves.

Those who hold to a "losable salvation" continually want to drop this truth and make it all about some "faith maintenance" as though Jesus has nothing to do with salvation.

Very sad really.

 

[VCO]

This is correct. But it’s the sins committed in ignorance that we commit less and less. A born again believer will not commit a Willful blatant sin; he will not obey the desires of the flesh and of the mind. He has crucified the flesh.

Ephesians 2:2-3
[2] Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: [3] Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Galatians 5:24
[24] And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Plus as I studied the word, I matured, and I found other sins that I did not know they were sins, but HE OPENED MY EYES.

I remember when was young CHRISTIAN, and I thought I was not committing sin (THAT IS PRIDE, and VERY TYPICAL OF A YOUNG CHRISTIAN); HE knocked my socks off, and planted me on my knees to confess a WHOLE NEW AREA OF SIN, that I had not even thought of with ONE VERSE:

James 4:17 (HCSB)
17 So it is a sin for the person who knows to do what is good and doesn’t do it.


I Mean that REALLY humbled me, what I thought I was getting the Christian Walk down pretty good, a whole new area of SIN to work on.

Then I found another area SIN that I needed to work on:

Proverbs 30:12-13 (NIV)
12 those who are pure in their own eyes and yet are not cleansed of their filth;
13 those whose eyes are ever so haughty, whose glances are so disdainful;


Knocked me to my Knees once again.

 

[Judges1318]

I am wondering what your point is, here.



[ooo, but look at the Grk word for "made [us] alive with" and how that is in the "singular" here: https://biblehub.com/text/ephesians/2-5.htm Eph2:5 (that is, we were WHEN He was! [G4806 - synezōopoiēsen ]. See what that indicates?!), and which verse goes on to say, "by grace ye are [present indicative] having been saved [PERFECT participle]" ]

10For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them." - Ephesians 2:10

I think @Lightskin was trying to make the point that God would not prepare any works for a new creation to do for a person who was never a new creation:

If Christ created works for you to do and you don’t do them, and you’re not a new creation because of this, then Christ never made you a new creation thus He wouldn’t have created the works in the first place.

In the Ephesians passage above, 'we' is plural.
He's speaking of works for new creations in general, not specific works for a specific new creation.

 

[Judges1318]

The object of our faith Jesus Christ, He saves.

Those who hold to a "losable salvation" continually want to drop this truth and make it all about some "faith maintenance" as though Jesus has nothing to do with salvation.

Very sad really.

Like I said, I think your problem is a lack of comprehension.
That's why you can't even understand the argument, let alone agree with it.

 

[EleventhHour]

Like I said, I think your problem is a lack of comprehension.
That's why you can't even understand the argument, let alone agree with it.

I prefer to have problems with comprehension (although I do not, that is just ridiculous) then be someone who is dishonest with other people's words.

And the list is quite long to whom you have done this on this thread.

 

[Guojing]

No. It was directed to any believer who desires to preach the gospel.

Because, unlike the flood that came and went, the world has not ended yet and Jesus himself said I am with until the end of the world regarding the preaching/teaching of the gospel.

Beware that studying Dispensationalism hasn’t made you an example of Ecclesiastes 7:16; making yourself overwise destroying yourself.

You have read Romans 9 to 11? Israel rejected their gospel and has been set aside by God.

If you claim its still directed to us now, where are the signs and wonders that were promised to us in Mark, as John146 has also mentioned?