Not By Works

[EleventhHour]

You still aren't comprehending.
Non-osas isn't making the argument that you think it's making.
The argument is not that a spiritual birth can be erased from history as if it never happened.
That's not the point being made.
The argument is that the life a person received when they were born again can be removed from the spirit of a person, just as physical life can be removed from a physical body that has been born.

Quote the verse where Jesus makes his assertion in this discourse with Nicodemus?

Again we all die so then we would all loose spiritual birth.

The only thing you are doing is side stepping.. which tells me you see that NOSAS is a failure in light of Jesus' discourse with Nicodemus.

 

[Lightskin]

That was exactly my point.
Works of service/sacrifice do not justify a person as having saving faith in Christ.
Godly character does.

Tell the to the James pushers.

 

[Judges1318]

And you get that from where? You cannot justify your salvation to anyone. One moment you appear to be saved, the next you don’t. Question, you go to the grocery store, can you honestly tell who is saved and who is lost?

I can tell by a person's character and lifestyle if I can consider them a genuine believer.
James uses Abraham, for example, to illustrate this point.
Abraham demonstrated that he had faith in God by what he did.
And that is true of us as well.

"18 ...Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds." - James 2:18

Works validate the presence of genuine saving faith.
A person is justified (shown to be righteous) by what he does.
Meanwhile, he is justified (made righteous) by faith apart from works.

The genuinely saved person is justified by BOTH faith and works.
But you have to understand there are two definitions of 'justified' so you don't misunderstand that as being a works gospel.

Just one of the valuable nuggets of knowledge I've received from forum discussions over the years.

 

[Judges1318]

Quote the verse where Jesus makes his assertion in this discourse with Nicodemus?

You don't listen.
John 3 is not a passage about non-osas.
It's a passage about the necessity of being born again, that's all.

 

[Judges1318]

Again we all die so then we would all loose spiritual birth.

That's why you picked a lousy analogy to somehow make your point.

 

[Lightskin]

Tell the to the James pushers.

THAT

 

[Judges1318]

Tell the to the James pushers.

Read my post #135,323.

 

[EleventhHour]

You don't listen.
John 3 is not a passage about non-osas.
It's a passage about the necessity of being born again, that's all.

It is indeed.
So then one would think that Jesus would have made it clear to Nicodemus that it could be revoked, but He did not.

But you still are being evasive.

How does one physically unbirth/uncreate themselves?

 

[EleventhHour]

Read my post #135,323.

You do not understand James or Hebrews just stick to the John 3 that is all you need to deal with.... waiting?

 

[Judges1318]

The only thing you are doing is side stepping.. which tells me you see that NOSAS is a failure in light of Jesus' discourse with Nicodemus.

You picked an analogy of the physical body that dies to somehow prove osas. Your OSAS is a failure in light of that analogy Jesus used in John 3.

 

[EleventhHour]

That's why you picked a lousy analogy to somehow make your point.

Jesus made the analogy.

Your job is to show how a person can unbirth/uncreate themselves.

By analogy both situations have to correlate.

Waiting?

 

[Judges1318]

You do not understand James or Hebrews just stick to the John 3 that is all you need to deal with.... waiting?

Seriously, you're not comprehending the argument at all.
How many times do I have to explain it to you?

 

[Judges1318]

Your job is to show how a person can unbirth/uncreate themselves.

Sorry, but it's not my job to show you something I'm not saying.
Why can't you comprehend that?

Do I have to tell you what the actual argument is again?

 

[EleventhHour]

You picked an analogy of the physical body that dies to somehow prove osas. Your OSAS is a failure in light of that analogy Jesus used in John 3.

Nope the analogy Jesus makes is clear.

Each event occurs once and they are not undone... no one goes back to the womb and is uncreated.

Physical death has no application to the analogy.

 

[EleventhHour]

Sorry, but it's not my job to show you something I'm not saying.
Why can't you comprehend that?

Do I have to tell you what the actual argument is again?

You have no argument.
For a person to be unborn from above by analogy would be the same as a person being unbirthed.

Jesus puts the two together.

 

[VCO]

The following is not directed at anyone in particular. But this post just stirred up this response from me.

And the thing that OSAS is capable of producing is annoying believers who never examine themselves but push Christianity on a world sick and tired of being told to be “saved” by people who are worse then them! Because at least their natural instinct is to do well. Whereas many OSAS’ers are puffed up with the notion that Christ did it all and no longer need to focus on living holy because that would be self righteousness and “taking your eyes off of Christ; letting go and
letting Him”. As if we could hinder God in anyway.

I am not sure if that Post is one You WROTE, or one you are quoted that someone else wrote ? ? ?


When are people ever going to learn, that Author of the Post, HAS A FALSE IDEA ABOUT WHAT OSAS THEOLOGY MEANS. Every bit of that post is a FALSE OPINION of what OSAS TEACHES.

I have been involved in OSAS CHURCHES for the past 4 DECADES.

3 in Nebraska.
1 in Nevada.
10 in California

And all 14 Churches taught the same thing about OSAS DOCTRINE.

NONE EVERY TAUGHT ANYTHING LIKE THAT:

capable of producing is annoying believers who never examine themselves
being told to be “saved” by people who are worse then them
OSAS’ers are puffed up with the notion that Christ did it all and no longer need to focus on living holy
that would be self righteousness and “taking your eyes off of Christ; letting go and letting Him”.

EVERY BIT OF THAT IS A LIE ABOUT WHAT OSAS TEACHES AND BELIEVES, whether it be intentional or uneducated in origin.

Don't it Bother that Author's Conscience that THEY ARE TELLING LIES ABOUT OSAS BELIEFS ? ? ?

THAT AUTHOR OF THAT POST, MUST HATE OSAS DOCTRINE, TO THINK LYING (intentionally or unintentionally out of assumptions) IS JUSTIFIED, AND THAT GOD APPROVES OF IT ? ? ?

Proverbs 6:16-19 (HCSB)
16 The LORD hates six things; in fact, seven are detestable to Him:
17 arrogant eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood,
18 a heart that plots wicked schemes, feet eager to run to evil,
19 a lying witness who gives false testimony, and one who stirs up trouble among brothers.


By my count, at least 3 of the Seven things that GOD SAYS HE HATES AND CALLS DETESTABLE,
the Author of that Post, is guilty of, by that Post ? ? ?

 

[John146]

The following is not directed at anyone in particular. But this post just stirred up this response from me.

And the thing that OSAS is capable of producing is annoying believers who never examine themselves but push Christianity on a world sick and tired of being told to be “saved” by people who are worse then them! Because at least their natural instinct is to do well. Whereas many OSAS’ers are puffed up with the notion that Christ did it all and no longer need to focus on living holy because that would be self righteousness and “taking your eyes off of Christ; letting go and letting Him”. As if we could hinder God in anyway.

Yours and my works are as filthy rags.

Absolutely, we should try and live holy lives. But we’re going to fall short. At least I can admit it. It is obvious you believe that Christ’s shed blood was not sufficient to save the sinner. I wholeheartedly disagree.

 

[John146]

I can tell by a person's character and lifestyle if I can consider them a genuine believer.
James uses Abraham, for example, to illustrate this point.
Abraham demonstrated that he had faith in God by what he did.
And that is true of us as well.

"18 ...Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds." - James 2:18

Works validate the presence of genuine saving faith.
A person is justified (shown to be righteous) by what he does.
Meanwhile, he is justified (made righteous) by faith apart from works.

The genuinely saved person is justified by BOTH faith and works.
But you have to understand there are two definitions of 'justified' so you don't misunderstand that as being a works gospel.

Just one of the valuable nuggets of knowledge I've received from forum discussions over the years.

Funny thing, there was no one up there to see Abraham. If I see a person do something good, can I make the judgment that they are saved?

 

[John146]

The genuinely saved person is justified by BOTH faith and works.
But you have to understand there are two definitions of 'justified' so you don't misunderstand that as being a works gospel.

Just one of the valuable nuggets of knowledge I've received from forum discussions over the years.

This two meanings of justification is made up to justify, lol, your theology. You have to or else it’s false.

 

[BlessedCreator]

Without obedience unto God's will (His commandments taught in the Holy Bible) faith is dead. That's what this whole battle is all about. Righteousness vs sin. Obedience vs disobedience. For everything contrary to God's will (disobedience) is sin.