Not By Works

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Dec 12, 2013
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Here, I'll give you a chance to explain your own doctrine.
Let's start here:

Why is it 'works' if I have to keep believing in order to remain saved?

@EleventhHour , feel free to chime in, in case dcontroversal doesn't have time to post. I'd like both of you to explain your doctrine yourselves.
Just like the serpent....Listen pal....YOU FALSELY accused me of implying, saying something I have never said....I TOLD YOU TO PULL UP A DIRECT QUOTE where I implied the slanderous accusation you accused me of.....NOW YET AGAIN you are deflecting because you know that what you accused me of is false....you are a deceiver and your actions, combined with your own dogma prove that you are not of God........

One accusation and delfection after another by you while twisting the word of God, denying word definitions, context and the truth.........just another religionist!
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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and we both know that Hebrews 3 is about Israel, who never really believed after being freed from Egypt, so that is not a viable go-to verse.
Amen! Hebrews 3:8 - Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion, In the day of trial in the wilderness, 9 Where your fathers tested Me, tried Me, And saw My works forty years. 10 Therefore I was angry with that generation, And said, 'They always go astray in their heart, And they have not known My ways.'

Verses 18-19 - And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief. That explains the hardened heart. It took them in the opposite direction of God. Heard the truth for a time, but then hardened heart and departing from God became their final answer. Jude 1:5 - The Lord delivered His people (the Israelites) out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe.

*Compare with Hebrews 4:1 - Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed the gospel was preached to US as well as to THEM; but the word which THEY heard did not profit THEM, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. 3 For WE who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said: "So I swore in My wrath, 'They shall not enter My rest," although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. Obviously, not all of these Hebrews were genuine believers. *Notice that verses 2-3 makes a distinction between US who have BELIEVED and do enter that rest and THEM who heard the word but did not mix faith with what they heard and will not enter that rest because of UNBELIEF.

Hebrews 3:14 - For we have become [past tense Gk. verb, gegonamen, meaning we have become already] partakers of Christ, (demonstrative evidence) if we hold fast the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end. Notice that this is essentially a repeat of verse 6, where we have read: but Christ was faithful as a Son over His house - whose house we are, (demonstrative evidence) if we hold fast our confidence and the boast of our hope firm until the end. Notice the wording is not - "and you will become partakers of Christ (future indicative) if you (future indicative) hold fast to the end." It is rather - "you have been, and now are, partakers of Christ if in the future you hold fast."

The point is that not all of these Hebrews have become partakers in their promised Messiah and the only ones in the end who will be identified as truly born again Hebrews who have been partakers of Christ will have been those who have held fast the beginning of their confidence steadfast to the end. Those faltering Hebrews who depart from God begin with loud confidence and profession of loyalty. But later? Future perseverance is proof of genuine conversion. (y)
 
Nov 16, 2019
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how about you explain yours- you say that one is saved by belief, then you go on to say that if one sins too much or is not doing enough good works, then salvation can be lost.

explain this contradiction.

and we both know that Hebrews 3 is about Israel, who never really believed after being freed from Egypt, so that is not a viable go-to verse.
I've explained this to you several times.
The whole book of Hebrews is to believing Christians.
That's easy to prove.
Even a believer can be deceived by sin and be hardened to unbelief by unrepentant, willful sin.
A lifestyle of willful, unrepentant sin is the sign of unbelief.
Contrary to the claim of Freegrace doctrine, no unbeliever will inherit the kingdom.
 
Nov 16, 2019
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Just like the serpent....Listen pal....YOU FALSELY accused me of implying, saying something I have never said....I TOLD YOU TO PULL UP A DIRECT QUOTE where I implied the slanderous accusation you accused me of.....NOW YET AGAIN you are deflecting because you know that what you accused me of is false....you are a deceiver and your actions, combined with your own dogma prove that you are not of God........

One accusation and delfection after another by you while twisting the word of God, denying word definitions, context and the truth.........just another religionist!
Just answer this question:

Am I still saved if I go back to unbelief?
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
Naa, He will be back, this is where he gets Fed. I noticed in my travels that it appeas this is the only thread he posts in.. He has been caught slandering people for awhile now ansd called out for it, does not phase him a bit
Very true.
Yes I guess I spoke too soon.
 
Nov 16, 2019
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@dcontroversal ,

Then answer this one, please:

Why is the necessity to continue to believe me trying to save myself?

Just explain your doctrine if this is what you believe.
If you don't believe that, just say so.
 
Nov 16, 2019
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Naa, He will be back, this is where he gets Fed. I noticed in my travels that it appeas this is the only thread he posts in.. He has been caught slandering people for awhile now ansd called out for it, does not phase him a bit
All you have to do is open up my list of posts and see I post other places.

Calling you people out is not slander.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
Romans 8:30 - Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. *ALL of them. Notice how Paul uses the past tense for a future event to stress it's certainty. (y)
Amen and Amen

It is all right there.
Infuriates me to no end how some deny the words of God!
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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I've explained this to you several times.
The whole book of Hebrews is to believing Christians.
That's easy to prove.
Even a believer can be deceived by sin and be hardened to unbelief by unrepentant, willful sin.
A lifestyle of willful, unrepentant sin is the sign of unbelief.
Contrary to the claim of Freegrace doctrine, no unbeliever will inherit the kingdom.
greek word for believe- pisteuo- meaning to be persuaded of, to entrust, to place confidence in.

nothing about works.

so, how is that not doing enough good works can disqualify one from salvation when works have nothing to do with belief??

so, again, this is YOUR position.

explain.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
.

Here, I'll give you a chance to explain your own doctrine.
Let's start here:

Why is it 'works' if I have to keep believing in order to remain saved?

@EleventhHour , feel free to chime in, in case dcontroversal doesn't have time to post. I'd like both of you to explain your doctrine yourselves.
remain saved?
Here is your ERROR

We believe IN Jesus for salvation and we are justified and sanctified in Him.
Done
You have been told this many times.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
greek word for believe- pisteuo- meaning to be persuaded of, to entrust, to place confidence in.

nothing about works.

so, how is that not doing enough good works can disqualify one from salvation when works have nothing to do with belief??

so, again, this is YOUR position.

explain.
He has no idea what belief is.

For him its like...... Dorothy wandering through the Land of Oz trying to get back to Kansas.
 
Nov 16, 2019
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greek word for believe- pisteuo- meaning to be persuaded of, to entrust, to place confidence in.

nothing about works.

so, how is that not doing enough good works can disqualify one from salvation when works have nothing to do with belief??

so, again, this is YOUR position.

explain.
The person who does not have faith is signified by his lifestyle of willful sin, not his struggle with sin.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
Cheers,
i apologize for my anger yesterday,I'm very regretful that the pain I was suffering was directed at any here. 😢
The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak,please pray that I overcome the flesh in ALL my life!
I would suggest that if this thread agitates you, like it did LordsHandMaiden, IFollowHim and LeastAmongMany then just avoid it.

You know where many of us stand on the security of salvation and that is not going to change.
 
Nov 17, 2017
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Why is it 'works' if I have to keep believing in order to remain saved?
YAHWEH DID AND DOES THE WORK THROUGH THOSE WHO ARE HIS BY HIS SPIRIT,
HE ALONE GIVES PEACE
HE ALONE DOES GOOD
HE ALONE COMFORTS
HE ALONE PUT WORDS IN THE MOUTH OF HIS CHILDREN
HE ALONE GIVES ETERNAL LIFE....
(The list goes on........)

NO MAN CAN GIVE, DO OR WORK FOR ANY OF THESE THINGS, in and of himself......

Yahweh did and does all these things....

All I/we can "do" is give Him the praise honor and glory due His name.... and tell Him how wonderful He is... {and INDEED (Yahweh Elohim),HE IS WONDERFUL.}

God Bless..
 
Nov 17, 2017
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Why is my believing/trusting works?
I have to cease from believing/trusting to be saved?
Its like the Lord gets you up in the morning, (you know you dont get yourself up)
and you have to convince yourself you beleive or that you are saved, daily.

Must be exhausting...
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
Its like the Lord gets you up in the morning, (you know you dont get yourself up)
and you have to convince yourself you beleive or that you are saved, daily.

Must be exhausting...
Good way to put it... belief brings the Holy Spirit... I do not need to believe He is there for Him to be there, that is just silly.