Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#137,483
#137,483
John146 said:
If Satan knew the outcome of the cross, he never would have moved Judas to betray Jesus. Satan thought he was gaining the victory.
Click to expand...
Satan played his part but .....it was God's plan... and he served God's purpose as did Judas.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#137,485
#137,485
azamzimtoti said:
I dunno - he ain't gonna find that verse in 1 Cor 3
Click to expand...
I think maybe he meant....

1 Cor 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#137,486
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
#137,486
Micaiah-imla said:
And because it was hidden to the whole world, not just the Jews, you conclude that it (the cross) was not for the Jews? Wouldn't that imply that the cross wasn't for anyone since no one new about it (including the Jews)?

Your reasoning makes no sense.
Click to expand...
I agree with your last line......I disagree with his view that it was completely hidden....it is found in pictures, types and shadows and when they are viewed as a panoramic view it becomes clear....Jesus was clear...

In the volume of the book it is written of me and Search the scriptures, they are they which testify or me!

And they knew...remember the chief priest...IS IT NOT EXPEDIENT that ONE MAN should die for the NATION...
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#137,487
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
#137,487
John146 said:
Yet the Bible calls it a mystery. If Satan would have known about the cross, he never would have initiated it. It had to be kept hidden until afterwards.
Click to expand...
If pigs had wings they could fly!.....The "if game" and surmising does not play on my field.......God can reveal the entire truth of the Universe to his children and keep it from the enemy at the same time!
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#137,491
Jan 13, 2016
17,176
3,700
113
#137,491
dcontroversal said:
I know, can you imagine believing that Satan initiated the cross......Wow....my bible tells me GOD initiated the process to reconcile man unto himself....not Satan!
Click to expand...
God planned the cross, Satan was used to initiate Jesus being hated, betrayed and crucified. The cross was Satan attacking the promised seed of Genesis 3:15.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#137,492
Jan 13, 2016
17,176
3,700
113
#137,492
dcontroversal said:
I agree with your last line......I disagree with his view that it was completely hidden....it is found in pictures, types and shadows and when they are viewed as a panoramic view it becomes clear....Jesus was clear...
Click to expand...
We see Christ in those pictures now that the cross has occurred. At the times of the pictures, no one saw Christ and the cross.
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#137,493
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#137,493
VCO said:
It is a ADDICTION to ARGUING, ISN'T IT ? ? ? That is part of your Sin Nature.
Click to expand...
There are people who are curious to learn about other peoples' perspectives on issues.

I am not trying to change anyone's mind here, only they can change it themselves.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#137,495
#137,495
John146 said:
We see Christ in those pictures now that the cross has occurred. At the times of the pictures, no one saw Christ and the cross.
Click to expand...
Are you also a Mid - Acts Dispensationalist?

I really do not know how you can state not one saw Christ and the cross.

If the woman from Samaria recognized Him based on what she knew, certainly people in the OT also saw Christ and the cross.

As well, Paul states in Galatians 3:8, “the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham.
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#137,497
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#137,497
John146 said:
We see Christ in those pictures now that the cross has occurred. At the times of the pictures, no one saw Christ and the cross.
Click to expand...
These people are fond of anticipating revelation. Execution on the cross was a Roman invention and Rome had not existed during the time those prophesies about hanging on a tree were uttered.

They find it difficult to imagine themselves during OT times, when Paul's revelations did not exist, and understanding OT scriptures as it was written then.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#137,499
#137,499
Guojing said:
But not free choice?
Click to expand...
Choice is choice why do you need free... you do know free will was a school of thought among classical Greek philosophers, I do not see the point of dragging that into the discussion.
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#137,500
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#137,500
walknlight said:
View attachment 216958
Click to expand...
A good example of "anticipating revelation".

We had the benefit of time and wisdom to look back now and see the cross in the encampment, in the way they put the blood on the doorpost during the last plague of Egypt, see Jesus throughout the OT.

Thus, we automatically assumed that the guys back then "must have also known" about everything we knew.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.