Not By Works

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Dec 12, 2013
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@John146 @Guojing

He said to them,
O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken! Ought not the Christ to have suffered these things and to enter into His glory?
And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself.
(Luke 24:25-27)
we now having heard the gospel and received the illumination of the Holy Ghost are we also to be so foolish and slow of heart not to understand what Moses and the Prophets testify of Him?? the rejection of Christ by His people and the bringing in of the Gentiles permeates all the scripture, but like @John146 said, it was hidden, and that in full accord with His own purpose.
Neither one of them will accept the truth and humble themselves.....they have been opposing truth on every turn out of pride, sin and wilfull ignorance!
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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The KOG is a spiritual kingdom that operates within the believer.
the God of heaven is the very same God

and saying, repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand!
(Matthew 3:2)
the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel!
(Mark 1:15)
as you go, preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand!’
(Matthew 10:7)

if I cast out demons with the finger of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you!
(Luke 11:20)
were two different kingdoms at hand simultaneously?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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I wonder why He didn’t rebuke them for such a thought....😉
what do you think "it's not for you to know" is? :p
it ain't the information they're asking for.

but that is wholly immaterial. the point is that He declares they are in a state of ignorance as determined from on high.

a theology which recognizes a gradual revealing of the plans of the LORD is stupid to conclude that the plans of the LORD are contingent on the understanding of men with respect to time. 'stupid' because the scripture defines stupidity as rejecting instruction, and the fact that God hides and reveals singularly indicates that judging His plans by what He reveals is intractable. God does not dangle a carrot in front of an ass which He does not intend to feed her with: "thou shalt not muzzle the ox when he treadeth out the corn" -- the corn is the corn. fatness and leanness do not change the corn.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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The 12 were asking him a specific question about timing.

Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
this is better; you are getting towards the right track. we should talk about time.
this is not an indication that God has various and sundry gospels. this is not an indication that God has various and sundry reigns.
there is one gospel, one Lord who is King over all. He is eternal, and infinite. we are talking about an asymptotic point: He sees and knows and dwells in all times and no time simultaneously. He is I AM - eternal present-tense. was, is, is to come. not contingent on time. independent of time.


God is not a function of time.

He created time and created the world in time. in time and over time He reveals Himself as Salvation Himself, and He does not change.

you drive towards a mountain. when it is far, it looks small, and when you are close, it looms mountain-size. it is the same mountain. your perspective, the resolving power your eyes have beholding the mountain, are what change, not the mountain. they change when differentiated with respect to time.
 

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
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They would only have to read the first verse in the Bible to come up with that “nonsense”. Lol

Jesus descended to the third heaven. The first heaven is man’s temporary dwelling place here on earth.
I thought the 1st heaven was the sky , the 2nd heaven was the universe ( sun , moon and stars ) and the 3rd heaven where Jesus ascended to sit on the right hand of His Father ?
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,109
3,686
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the God of heaven is the very same God

and saying, repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand!
(Matthew 3:2)
the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel!
(Mark 1:15)
as you go, preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand!’
(Matthew 10:7)
if I cast out demons with the finger of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you!
(Luke 11:20)
were two different kingdoms at hand simultaneously?
Yes, both were at hand during the first advent. When Scripture speaks of God, is scripture also referring to heaven? And vise verse? Nope.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,109
3,686
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what do you think "it's not for you to know" is? :p
it ain't the information they're asking for.


but that is wholly immaterial. the point is that He declares they are in a state of ignorance as determined from on high.
a theology which recognizes a gradual revealing of the plans of the LORD is stupid to conclude that the plans of the LORD are contingent on the understanding of men with respect to time. '
stupid' because the scripture defines stupidity as rejecting instruction, and the fact that God hides and reveals singularly indicates that judging His plans by what He reveals is intractable. God does not dangle a carrot in front of an ass which He does not intend to feed her with: "thou shalt not muzzle the ox when he treadeth out the corn" -- the corn is the corn. fatness and leanness do not change the corn.
I think it’s quite obvious that Jesus is agreeing that the kingdom of Israel will be restored, but the timing is not for them to know.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,109
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I thought the 1st heaven was the sky , the 2nd heaven was the universe ( sun , moon and stars ) and the 3rd heaven where Jesus ascended to sit on the right hand of His Father ?
First heaven is our atmosphere in which we live which includes the sky.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,109
3,686
113
the God of heaven is the very same God

and saying, repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand!
(Matthew 3:2)
the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel!
(Mark 1:15)
as you go, preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand!’
(Matthew 10:7)
if I cast out demons with the finger of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you!
(Luke 11:20)
were two different kingdoms at hand simultaneously?

In Matthew 5, the Kingdom of Heaven is spoken about and it says that if one sinned against God that he would go to hell. While Paul taught that the Kingdom of God is where the Christian lived(Romans 14:17). If the two are same then there is a contradiction that the Christian's salvation includes works.

Matthew 25:14-30 talks about the Kingdom of Heaven where an unfaithful servant goes to hell. Luke 19:12-27 talks about the Kingdom of God where the unfaithful servant loses his rewards and this matches up with the Christian at the Judgment Seat of Christ(2 Corinthians 5:10). There is obviously a difference between the two kingdoms.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,109
3,686
113
the God of heaven is the very same God

and saying, repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand!
(Matthew 3:2)
the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel!
(Mark 1:15)
as you go, preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand!’
(Matthew 10:7)
if I cast out demons with the finger of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you!
(Luke 11:20)
were two different kingdoms at hand simultaneously?
The Kingdom of Heaven is a physical kingdom that will take place on earth and consists of violence. Remember that the earth is in the heaven(Genesis 1:1, 1:14-16).

Matthew 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.

The spiritual kingdom cannot be taken away from someone by force.
 

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
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First heaven is our atmosphere in which we live which includes the sky.
But you said mans temporary place is the first heaven ON earth and includes the sky , I thought the 1st heaven was the sky , not the earth...

Genesis 7:11
In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

Is the bible not saying the sky is the 1st heaven , where the rain comes down on the earth? , the windows of the 1st heaven being opened...
 
Apr 3, 2019
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One has to understand the difference between the kingdom of heaven and the kingdom of God. Most commentaries get it wrong. They equate the two. Simply put, heaven and God are not the same. One’s a created physical place. The other is a spirit.
It's only hard to understand when you ignore what is written in favour of your faulty doctrine:

(Mat 11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.)

(Luke 7:28 For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.)

Poor old John got demoted in both kingdoms
 
Dec 12, 2013
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I thought the 1st heaven was the sky , the 2nd heaven was the universe ( sun , moon and stars ) and the 3rd heaven where Jesus ascended to sit on the right hand of His Father ?
Amen Rose.....even you know the truth better than this King James worshipper.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,109
3,686
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But you said mans temporary place is the first heaven ON earth and includes the sky , I thought the 1st heaven was the sky , not the earth...

Genesis 7:11
In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

Is the bible not saying the sky is the 1st heaven , where the rain comes down on the earth? , the windows of the 1st heaven being opened...
Does not our atmosphere in which we breath include the sky? The windows of heaven are up above us in the sky. All a part of earths atmosphere, yes?
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,109
3,686
113
It's only hard to understand when you ignore what is written in favour of your faulty doctrine:

(Mat 11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.)

(Luke 7:28 For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.)

Poor old John got demoted in both kingdoms
Absolutely! At the time, John was in neither. Study to shew thyself approved unto God...
 
Apr 3, 2019
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Absolutely! At the time, John was in neither. Study to shew thyself approved unto God...
You've been shown by numerous posters from various verses that show that the KOG and the KOH are used interchangeably.

(1 Cor 4:19 But I will come to you shortly, if the Lord will, and will know, not the speech of them which are puffed up, but the power)

(1 Cor 4:20 For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power.)

Paul was operating in the Kingdom of God, but according to your "theology" he should have been operating in the kingdom of heaven.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,109
3,686
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You've been shown by numerous posters from various verses that show that the KOG and the KOH are used interchangeably.

(1 Cor 4:19 But I will come to you shortly, if the Lord will, and will know, not the speech of them which are puffed up, but the power)

(1 Cor 4:20 For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power.)

Paul was operating in the Kingdom of God, but according to your "theology" he should have been operating in the kingdom of heaven.
Romans 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

Nope, the KOH is a physical literal kingdom promised to the nation of Israel with their rightful king on David’s throne.