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E

EleventhHour

Guest
Yes

And both DC and Laftur exposed that but in different ways. We see where ex has affected people and they were saved. Others that will lot work. But they may respond to laftur

If someone responds to either we should praise god. Not attack the messenger

Hopefully you understand

I understand to the extent that the power is in the message and the word.... not the person

Acts 6:6
And the word of God continued to increase, and the number of the disciples multiplied greatly in Jerusalem, and a great many of the priests became obedient to the faith.
 
May 19, 2020
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I understand to the extent that the power is in the message and the word.... not the person

Acts 6:6
And the word of God continued to increase, and the number of the disciples multiplied greatly in Jerusalem, and a great many of the priests became obedient to the faith.


Yes indeed and the power and message for me was in Lafftur post.




That message for me I believe was from the heart of God and I received it well and truly into my heart.
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
5,695
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I understand to the extent that the power is in the message and the word.... not the person

Acts 6:6
And the word of God continued to increase, and the number of the disciples multiplied greatly in Jerusalem, and a great many of the priests became obedient to the faith.
True, people have no power. The Holy Spirit is the power in the message of the Word - The Spirit of Truth reveals The Word - gives undeniable understanding that the word spoken is true.

The Father sends His Word and His Spirit to accomplish His Will in us and through us. Jesus as The Word made flesh also had the Holy Spirit without measure and was able to accomplish all that His Father sent Him to do.

I love that a great many of the priests became obedient to the faith. I think it was really tough for the priests because of the opposition to the Gospel of Jesus Christ among the religious leaders. Probably, many of them were removed from the temple.
 
May 23, 2020
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@dcontroversal - How about "while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us"......or "love your enemies"?

Look dc, you and I agree that OSAS is TRUE - The Gift of Salvation CANNOT be lost.

We just differ on how we choose to DEFEND the Truth. God made you hard and abrasive, whereas He made me kind and gentle.

NEVER did I embrace DorothyMae's opposition to OSAS but, I did embrace her and encouraged her to keep seeking Truth with an open heart and an open mind and to love and desire Truth.

You're treating ALL "Salvation Losers" as Pharisees and I agree that most do have a "Pharisee mentality" or are "wolves in sheep clothing" but, perhaps some of those "wolves" are REALLY sheep....:unsure:

What if DorothyMae is just simply a VERY upset sheep in the fold and angry that the sheep are not behaving?

@DorothyMae - correct if I'm wrong but, the way I understand your view of OSAS is that it gives Christians a free pass to sin with no consequences and their sins are very harmful to others - you adamantly oppose and even venomously despise the injustice that Christians inflict on others, especially the weak, helpless, poor and needy.

Well, if I am correct in your view of OSAS then this is my kind and gentle response:

Some people profess to be Christians and actually NEVER were saved because they did it in their flesh for self promoting reasons - meaning the condition of their heart was NOT good ground - the seed of faith never took root.

A true born again believer in Christ does NOT desire to sin because their nature is no longer in Adam, they are now IN CHRIST. However, the true believer still stumbles over their "flesh" and will sin but, the more they embrace the Holy Spirit and the the Word of God, their minds will be renewed - line upon line, precept upon precept and they will learn the perfect will of God and how to walk by the Spirit so they do NOT fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

We are to forgive one another and not judge, condemn or point fingers at each other.

When I am a victim of another "Christian's" sin, I am to forgive them and confront them in a way that does not judge or condemn but rather brings reconciliation. If they continue then, I am to disassociate myself from them because the Lord will deal with them. God will chastise us as dear children because He loves us.

ANY and ALL wrong done to us by Christians and non-Christians will be recompensed to us by God - He will bring goodness out of ALL our sufferings, we need only to trust Him.

The Gift of Salvation is NEVER taken away from ANY true born again believer. We are FOREVER and ETERNALLY SAVED and His possession - His children - The Children of Light.

DorothyMae and dcontroversal - God loves us all. We will disagree until our minds are renewed and we are walking by the Spirit bearing the Fruit of the Spirit and manifesting the Gifts of the Spirit in our lives for the edifying of the Believers in Christ Jesus, our Lord, Savior and King and to promote the Kingdom of God in the Earth that is to come.

Much love to both of you IN CHRIST! :love:(y)
Laff,

I am not in lease angry nor do I despise anyone!! Why do
you think I am or have? What have I written that makes you think that?

Laff, your posts are kind. I don’t believe God made d the other way. I believe you both are responsible for your words and what kind of people you are.

Your understanding of my view is not correct but I do appreciate one OSAS finally taking d to task. You have courage as well.

I can give you a number of scriptures that speak against OSAS but we needn’t go there. Sometimes silence is better. Jesus was often silent to the wrong thinking around him.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,135
4,137
113
It is but all of us have some false thinking. I think the fruit or resulting behavior most important. If some believe OSAS but follow Jesus whole heartedly their whole lives, that’s great! Wouldn’t you say that if a person believes they could fall away and so follows Jesus whole heartedly their whole life, it’s also great?


Is that HOW YOU EXCUSE your incredible FALSE THINKING ? ? ?

You absolutely do not get it, do you? So I will be ENTIRELY TRUTHFUL WITH YOU, Please do not think this is a personal attack.

I know of NO OSAS TRUE BELIEVER, that THINKS YOU CAN LOSE YOUR SALVATION. You either wholeheartedly BELIEVE THE ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED DOCTRINE; or you are something less than a OSAS True Believer.

1 John 2:19 (HCSB)
19 They went out from us, but they did not belong to us; for if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. However, they went out so that it might be made clear that none of them belongs to us.


WE BELIEVE THAT VERSE LITERALLY.

You do not UNDERSTAND that YOU are your own WORST ENEMY! YOU HAVE BEEN CONSTANTLY PUTTING DOWN, BELITTLING, and EVEN WITH EVERY LIE ON THE BOOKS OF FALSE TEACHING ABOUT OSAS BELIEFS. THAT ONLY PUTS US IN A DEFENSIVE MODE, BECAUSE THE LIES YOU TEACH, CAN ONLY BE OF DEVIL, (remember PETER had his mouth used by the devil) AND I DO NOT THINK YOU EVEN KNOW THEY ARE LIES. Please Stop, because YOU REALLY DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. I even have Doubts that you were EVER Born Again for REAL? If you want to rant and rave about OSAS, that you falsely perceive are wrong, THEN GO TO ANOTHER SITE, that is predominated by the teaching and CONTROLLED by Armenians. Yes, their probably are several, and one I actually had my thread CLOSED DOWN, because they DID NOT APPRECIATE my OSAS VIEWS. NO, I will not tell you the site, you will have to find it on your own.

Most of the People on this thread, are solidly OSAS TRUE BELIEVERS, so every time you say anything NEGATIVE, about OSAS, YOU WILL PUT US IN THE DEFENSIVE MODE, and that is not a personal attack on you, it is only your doctrinal so-called beliefs that we are SO TIRED OF the habitual lies, and it will NEVER temp us to reexamine our stance. We stand on the solid ROCK of OSAS, period.

No, that is not personal attack on you, but I am experiencing that which is wearing my thick skin down to paper thin. If you do this on EVERY SITE, where there are lots of OSAS Members, no wonder they get irritated with your unlearned lies, and false teaching. Like I said: It is YOUR put down of OSAS Beliefs and your FALSE STATEMENTS about OSAS, THAT IS THE REAL RUB. In other words, YOU are your own worst enemy.

Acts 20:28-31 (HCSB)
28 Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock that the Holy Spirit has appointed you to as overseers, to shepherd the church of God, which He purchased with His own blood.
29 I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock.
30 And men will rise up from your own number with deviant doctrines to lure the disciples into following them.
31 Therefore be on the alert, remembering that night and day for three years I did not stop warning each one of you with tears.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,135
4,137
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The point is two walk together who are not totally in agreement all the time. His unwillingness to call someone who disagrees with his particular theology even a saved Christian but thinks they are damned is not supported by his use of that verse. He refuses to walk with believers who don’t share his theology.

I do not insist a believer agree with me or I won’t accept them. That is the point. That is intolerance.
Show my how JESUS TAUGHT TOLERANCE ?

John 3:3 (HCSB)
3 Jesus replied, “I assure you: Unless someone is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

Matthew 7:13-16 (HCSB)
13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the road is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who go through it.
14 How narrow is the gate and difficult the road that leads to life, and few find it.
15 “Beware of false prophets who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravaging wolves.
16 You’ll recognize them by their fruit. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes or figs from thistles?


John 8:43-45 (NKJV)
43 Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word.
44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.
45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me.


John 14:6 (ESV)
6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Matthew 25:31-46 (HCSB)
31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory.

32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
33 He will put the sheep on His right and the goats on the left.
34 Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
35 For I was hungry and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in;
36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you took care of Me; I was in prison and you visited Me.’
37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You something to drink?
38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or without clothes and clothe You?
39 When did we see You sick, or in prison, and visit You?’
40 “And the King will answer them, ‘I assure you: Whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of Mine, you did for Me.’
41 Then He will also say to those on the left, ‘Depart from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the Devil and his angels!
42 For I was hungry and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty and you gave Me nothing to drink;
43 I was a stranger and you didn’t take Me in; I was naked and you didn’t clothe Me, sick and in prison and you didn’t take care of Me.’
44 “Then they too will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or without clothes, or sick, or in prison, and not help You?’
45 “Then He will answer them, ‘I assure you: Whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for Me either.’
46 “And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”


HE is not talking about the WORKS Righteousness, because only deeds that are motivated by AGAPE LOVE will be the SAVED.


 

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
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Matthew 25:37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You something to drink?
38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or without clothes and clothe You?
39 When did we see You sick, or in prison, and visit You?’


HE is not talking about the WORKS Righteousness, because only deeds that are motivated by AGAPE LOVE will be the SAVED.
I'm not trying to hop onto the conversation between you two, I just really wanted to support the point you've just made. Something that was so edifying for me, once I noticed it, that I'd love to share even at the risk of repeating myself.
It's really important, looking at them say in surprise, Lord, when did we ever do all that???
They weren't aware at all that they actually did ANYTHING. They were not attempting to accumulate merit. Not fighting to avoid being disowned by Jesus. Not merely trying not to boast, in which case they would say something like "we are like unprofitable servants and did what was our duty to do". But no, they are genuinely surprised... Their left hand didn't know what the right did, because they acted out of their new, changed natures, not as some bargaining chip to use when they face God. No buying and selling. Works are for gain, that's why they are filthy rags to God. All man's work is buying and selling, there's an intent to get something out of it. But for them, it was natural for them to do these things. It's the works we don't know about that God wants.
And that's why this isn't works righteousness, but the impact of Christ inside after one is born again.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
7,885
3,816
113
Show my how JESUS TAUGHT TOLERANCE ?

John 3:3 (HCSB)
3 Jesus replied, “I assure you: Unless someone is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

Matthew 7:13-16 (HCSB)
13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the road is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who go through it.
14 How narrow is the gate and difficult the road that leads to life, and few find it.
15 “Beware of false prophets who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravaging wolves.
16 You’ll recognize them by their fruit. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes or figs from thistles?


John 8:43-45 (NKJV)
43 Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word.
44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.
45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me.


John 14:6 (ESV)
6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Matthew 25:31-46 (HCSB)
31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory.

32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
33 He will put the sheep on His right and the goats on the left.
34 Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
35 For I was hungry and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in;
36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you took care of Me; I was in prison and you visited Me.’
37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You something to drink?
38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or without clothes and clothe You?
39 When did we see You sick, or in prison, and visit You?’
40 “And the King will answer them, ‘I assure you: Whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of Mine, you did for Me.’
41 Then He will also say to those on the left, ‘Depart from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the Devil and his angels!
42 For I was hungry and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty and you gave Me nothing to drink;
43 I was a stranger and you didn’t take Me in; I was naked and you didn’t clothe Me, sick and in prison and you didn’t take care of Me.’
44 “Then they too will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or without clothes, or sick, or in prison, and not help You?’
45 “Then He will answer them, ‘I assure you: Whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for Me either.’
46 “And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”


HE is not talking about the WORKS Righteousness, because only deeds that are motivated by AGAPE LOVE will be the SAVED.
I love the verses from Matthew 25.

The righteous did not realise they were, but they were. Just by simple acts of love.

The goats were just lip service.
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
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Laff,

I am not in lease angry nor do I despise anyone!! Why do
you think I am or have? What have I written that makes you think that?

Laff, your posts are kind. I don’t believe God made d the other way. I believe you both are responsible for your words and what kind of people you are.

Your understanding of my view is not correct but I do appreciate one OSAS finally taking d to task. You have courage as well.

I can give you a number of scriptures that speak against OSAS but we needn’t go there. Sometimes silence is better. Jesus was often silent to the wrong thinking around him.
Sweet DorothyMae,

I'm so glad to hear that you are not in the least angry or despise anyone. :love:

I am pleased that you find my posts kind, it is never my intent to hurt you or anyone with my words.

I am sorry that my understanding of your view of OSAS is incorrect, it was just based on observation not facts.

When you would post in my thread "Do you still sin?" often your posts were very direct and you seemed to have a very strong hatred for sin, especially sin that Christians commit, as if they are abusing their gift of salvation and do not deserve to be saved anymore. Of course, no one DESERVES salvation - all have sinned. God saves us because of who He is, NOT because of who we are.

You seemed very concerned about the victims of the sin that Christians committed - that the victims were being forgotten and not receiving justice for what was done to them. (Even though, it is God that avenges and recompenses - no one gets away with anything.)

I just couldn't find any mercy in your words - your heart seemed to cry for justice and not forgiveness which lead me to think that you have been hurt very deeply by Christians in authority and are angry and think forgiveness is too easy - they should be punished by losing their salvation which would make sense why you oppose OSAS.

I do believe God made dc hard and abrasive for His plan and purposes. Look at Peter, Paul and John......

Peter was so blazing trail adventurous, presumptuous and often getting himself in trouble with his mouth.........

Paul was like the Supreme Court Justice condemning everyone until he got a hold of the law of grace and had to go preach to Gentiles...........

John was all lovey dovey and just wanted to recline on Jesus' chest....he got to see up close and personal the whole book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ......WOW!!!

Oh yeah, God has made us all different. Ya know, dc has a fun side to him once you get to know him. It is good to debate with dc, he knocks all the rough edges off! lol! :giggle::love:(y)

It's also very easy to take dc or anyone to task, we are brothers and sisters in Christ and love knows no fear - it's not courage, it's love....love for God, love for truth, love for each other, and love for ourselves because we love what God made.

I pray we just all keep our hearts and minds open to God's Word and Holy Spirit, love truth and enjoy the journey! :love:(y)
 

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
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Sweet DorothyMae,

I'm so glad to hear that you are not in the least angry or despise anyone. :love:

I am pleased that you find my posts kind, it is never my intent to hurt you or anyone with my words.

I am sorry that my understanding of your view of OSAS is incorrect, it was just based on observation not facts.

When you would post in my thread "Do you still sin?" often your posts were very direct and you seemed to have a very strong hatred for sin, especially sin that Christians commit, as if they are abusing their gift of salvation and do not deserve to be saved anymore. Of course, no one DESERVES salvation - all have sinned. God saves us because of who He is, NOT because of who we are.

You seemed very concerned about the victims of the sin that Christians committed - that the victims were being forgotten and not receiving justice for what was done to them. (Even though, it is God that avenges and recompenses - no one gets away with anything.)

I just couldn't find any mercy in your words - your heart seemed to cry for justice and not forgiveness which lead me to think that you have been hurt very deeply by Christians in authority and are angry and think forgiveness is too easy - they should be punished by losing their salvation which would make sense why you oppose OSAS.

I do believe God made dc hard and abrasive for His plan and purposes. Look at Peter, Paul and John......

Peter was so blazing trail adventurous, presumptuous and often getting himself in trouble with his mouth.........

Paul was like the Supreme Court Justice condemning everyone until he got a hold of the law of grace and had to go preach to Gentiles...........

John was all lovey dovey and just wanted to recline on Jesus' chest....he got to see up close and personal the whole book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ......WOW!!!

Oh yeah, God has made us all different. Ya know, dc has a fun side to him once you get to know him. It is good to debate with dc, he knocks all the rough edges off! lol! :giggle::love:(y)

It's also very easy to take dc or anyone to task, we are brothers and sisters in Christ and love knows no fear - it's not courage, it's love....love for God, love for truth, love for each other, and love for ourselves because we love what God made.

I pray we just all keep our hearts and minds open to God's Word and Holy Spirit, love truth and enjoy the journey! :love:(y)
I love your love @Lafftur ...
...xox...
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
1,549
2,017
113
North Carolina
Dorothy Mae or Dotty as I used to know her on another thread does nothing but belittle and berate OSAS. That's her mantra and she's sticking to it. She sees herself as the only one who "loves" God totally and completely and she constantly puts down anyone not following in her path. That's my opinion and I'm standing by it. I've heard her berating of us for a long time.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
Sweet DorothyMae,

I'm so glad to hear that you are not in the least angry or despise anyone. :love:

I am pleased that you find my posts kind, it is never my intent to hurt you or anyone with my words.

I am sorry that my understanding of your view of OSAS is incorrect, it was just based on observation not facts.

When you would post in my thread "Do you still sin?" often your posts were very direct and you seemed to have a very strong hatred for sin, especially sin that Christians commit, as if they are abusing their gift of salvation and do not deserve to be saved anymore. Of course, no one DESERVES salvation - all have sinned. God saves us because of who He is, NOT because of who we are.

You seemed very concerned about the victims of the sin that Christians committed - that the victims were being forgotten and not receiving justice for what was done to them. (Even though, it is God that avenges and recompenses - no one gets away with anything.)

I just couldn't find any mercy in your words - your heart seemed to cry for justice and not forgiveness which lead me to think that you have been hurt very deeply by Christians in authority and are angry and think forgiveness is too easy - they should be punished by losing their salvation which would make sense why you oppose OSAS.

I do believe God made dc hard and abrasive for His plan and purposes. Look at Peter, Paul and John......

Peter was so blazing trail adventurous, presumptuous and often getting himself in trouble with his mouth.........

Paul was like the Supreme Court Justice condemning everyone until he got a hold of the law of grace and had to go preach to Gentiles...........

John was all lovey dovey and just wanted to recline on Jesus' chest....he got to see up close and personal the whole book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ......WOW!!!

Oh yeah, God has made us all different. Ya know, dc has a fun side to him once you get to know him. It is good to debate with dc, he knocks all the rough edges off! lol! :giggle::love:(y)

It's also very easy to take dc or anyone to task, we are brothers and sisters in Christ and love knows no fear - it's not courage, it's love....love for God, love for truth, love for each other, and love for ourselves because we love what God made.

I pray we just all keep our hearts and minds open to God's Word and Holy Spirit, love truth and enjoy the journey! :love:(y)
It seems clear to me @DorothyMae is antagonistic to the Gospel.

Like I stated elsewhere... if salvation is not secure in Christ Jesus then Chritianity is no different than any other religion.

This is not a searching, unsure soul on a journey with us......nope, nope nope.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,135
4,137
113
I'm not trying to hop onto the conversation between you two, I just really wanted to support the point you've just made. Something that was so edifying for me, once I noticed it, that I'd love to share even at the risk of repeating myself.
It's really important, looking at them say in surprise, Lord, when did we ever do all that???
They weren't aware at all that they actually did ANYTHING. They were not attempting to accumulate merit. Not fighting to avoid being disowned by Jesus. Not merely trying not to boast, in which case they would say something like "we are like unprofitable servants and did what was our duty to do". But no, they are genuinely surprised... Their left hand didn't know what the right did, because they acted out of their new, changed natures, not as some bargaining chip to use when they face God. No buying and selling. Works are for gain, that's why they are filthy rags to God. All man's work is buying and selling, there's an intent to get something out of it. But for them, it was natural for them to do these things. It's the works we don't know about that God wants.
And that's why this isn't works righteousness, but the impact of Christ inside after one is born again.

ABSOLUTELY, I should have pointed that out when I mentioned that to her. THANK YOU!

The Agape Love for HIM and OTHERS, spawns from the LOVE that HE put into our hearts:

Romans 5:5 (HCSB)
5 This hope will not disappoint ⌊us⌋, because God’s love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
1,549
2,017
113
North Carolina
It seems clear to me @DorothyMae is antagonistic to the Gospel.

Like I stated elsewhere... if salvation is not secure in Christ Jesus then Chritianity is no different than any other religion.

This is not a searching, unsure soul on a journey with us......nope, nope nope.

Trust me, she is antagonistic towards those of us who believe the Word of God that salvation is a one-time event and she accuses those who believe this as not loving God as she does.