Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#145,501
#145,501
Sackcloth-N-Ashes said:
No unregenerate person has faith as it is a fruit of the Spirit, per Galatians 5:22. The unregenerate (a person devoid of God’s Spirit) cannot possess a fruit of the Spirit. If one has faith, they are regenerate. :)
Click to expand...
Your right they can not enjoy the fruit of the spirit because they have yet to be anointed by the spirit. They
Must be justified first. And this can only come through faith. One a man in born again through faith in Christ (John 3). Then the fruit of the spirit in gal 5 is free to be produced
 
Sackcloth-N-Ashes

Sackcloth-N-Ashes

Banned
#145,502
Oct 25, 2018
2,377
1,198
113
#145,502
eternally-gratefull said:
I can see this
but then Jesus also added all who see and believe would have life
in John 6 all those people were drawn to him by the miracles and his teachings. It’s why they chased after him but they could not truly see what he was there for so they never did believe. Because in their minds they did
Not need a savior from God but a savior for Rome
But in the end not everyone saw and believed. And remember one of his own chosen disciples was in his words the devil

Foreknowledge comes to the forfront. Does he draw people he knows will
Never believe no matter what he does?
Click to expand...
Yes foreknowledge comes to the forefront. It is a Greek verb, proginosko, which means God does something in foreknowing them...i.e...electing them to salvation. Foreknowledge is not omniscience. You’re conflating the two. God knows everybody whoever lived via His omniscience. He foreknows the elect by electing them.
 
Sackcloth-N-Ashes

Sackcloth-N-Ashes

Banned
#145,503
Oct 25, 2018
2,377
1,198
113
#145,503
eternally-gratefull said:
Your right they can not enjoy the fruit of the spirit because they have yet to be anointed by the spirit. They
Must be justified first. And this can only come through faith. One a man in born again through faith in Christ (John 3). Then the fruit of the spirit in gal 5 is free to be produced
Click to expand...
Is faith a gift of God or not?
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#145,504
Jul 3, 2015
61,118
30,250
113
#145,504
Sackcloth-N-Ashes said:
You may not agree with my theology, but I hope you can at least see where I am coming from. God saves His ppl in spite of who they are. They hated Him, yet He gave them the ability to come to a Him when He drew them. That’s why John 6:44 teaches. All that the Father draws will come to Him. That same Greek word helko is used. So He isn’t drawing everyone indiscriminately, but those He gave to the Son to die for, to atone for their sins.

You may not agree with that, but I do believe that is what the scriptures teach. If you have any more questions, fire away. I’ll do my best to give you a biblical answer.
Click to expand...


John 6:37 :)
 
jackrosie

jackrosie

Banned
#145,505
May 19, 2020
3,050
1,275
113
#145,505
[QUOTE="Sackcloth-N-Ashes, . God knows everybody whoever lived via His omniscience. He foreknows the elect by electing them.[/QUOTE]


AMEN!!
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#145,506
Jul 3, 2015
61,118
30,250
113
#145,506
Sackcloth-N-Ashes said:
1 Cor. 2:14 begs to differ with you. The natural man(NIV says man without the Spirit) cannot receive the things of the Spirit. Why? He considers them foolishness. Neither can he understand them. Why? They are spiritually appraised.
Click to expand...


1 Corinthians 2:14 :)
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#145,507
#145,507
Sackcloth-N-Ashes said:
Yes foreknowledge comes to the forefront. It is a Greek verb, proginosko, which means God does something in foreknowing them...i.e...electing them to salvation. Foreknowledge is not omniscience. You’re conflating the two. God knows everybody whoever lived via His omniscience. He foreknows the elect by electing them.
Click to expand...
See I can not see this

I see god forknew according to his will. That whoever believes in him will
Never perish. That whoever sees and believes will have eternal
Life (be born again).

Not that god chose selected based on some random reason.
 
Sackcloth-N-Ashes

Sackcloth-N-Ashes

Banned
#145,508
Oct 25, 2018
2,377
1,198
113
#145,508
jackrosie said:
[QUOTE="Sackcloth-N-Ashes]God knows everybody whoever lived via His omniscience. He foreknows the elect by electing them.


AMEN!!
Click to expand...
Listen, I am not trying to brainwash you in any way. Take what I give you, get your Bible, research this, study it, pray over it and about it. I don’t want you to just take my word for it. Research this for yourself.


Are you thinking what I’ve presented is true to the texts I’ve provided? If you have any more questions, feel free to fire away.
 
Sackcloth-N-Ashes

Sackcloth-N-Ashes

Banned
#145,514
Oct 25, 2018
2,377
1,198
113
#145,514
eternally-gratefull said:
See I can not see this

I see god forknew according to his will. That whoever believes in him will
Never perish. That whoever sees and believes will have eternal
Life (be born again).

Not that god chose selected based on some random reason.
Click to expand...
Election is not based on randomness. But foreknowledge is a verb, which means when God foreknows some, He is doing something when He foreknew them. This is election. God chose a number no man can number to give to the Son to redeem them from their sins. We are not told why He chose them, other than He loves them. That’s sufficient for me.
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#145,515
Apr 7, 2014
25,563
13,547
113
58
#145,515
EleventhHour said:
In this dogma God regenerates before they come to salvation.. if God does not regenerate them they have total inability to respond to the Gospel.
Click to expand...
Here is how I understand it. Although it is our responsibility to choose to believe and we will be held accountable for unbelief (John 3:18) choosing to believe in Christ unto salvation is not "exclusively" a matter of human decision. Unless the Father draws us (John 6:44) and enables us/it has been granted by the Father (John 6:65) we would NEVER come to believe in Christ unto salvation all by ourselves. I don’t see that as regeneration yet. The approach of the soul to Christ is initiated by the Father, but He doesn't force us to come to Christ and believe in Him unto salvation. We must choose to come to Him and believe unto salvation once enabled. I don’t believe that God fatalistically determines who will and who won’t believe. The impulse to come to Christ comes from the Father though.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#145,516
#145,516
Sackcloth-N-Ashes said:
Election is not based on randomness. But foreknowledge is a verb, which means when God foreknows some, He is doing something when He foreknew them. This is election. God chose a number no man can number to give to the Son to redeem them from their sins. We are not told why He chose them, other than He loves them. That’s sufficient for me.
Click to expand...
But we are told them all through the gospel. Whoever believes whoever sees and believes.

yes it is a verb gods foreknowledge is always in action in all he does at all times
 
Sackcloth-N-Ashes

Sackcloth-N-Ashes

Banned
#145,517
Oct 25, 2018
2,377
1,198
113
#145,517
eternally-gratefull said:
See I can not see this

I see god forknew according to his will. That whoever believes in him will
Never perish. That whoever sees and believes will have eternal
Life (be born again).

Not that god chose selected based on some random reason.
Click to expand...
Remember, WHOM(ppl) He foreknows He predestined...


For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to becomeconformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;[Romans 8:29]

Obviously He hasn’t foreknows everyone as that would mean all are predestined, called, justified and also glorified. But foreknow is a verb which means it is an active word.
 
Sackcloth-N-Ashes

Sackcloth-N-Ashes

Banned
#145,519
Oct 25, 2018
2,377
1,198
113
#145,519
mailmandan said:
Here is how I understand it. Although it is our responsibility to choose to believe and we will be held accountable for unbelief (John 3:18) choosing to believe in Christ unto salvation is not "exclusively" a matter of human decision. Unless the Father draws us (John 6:44) and enables us/it has been granted by the Father (John 6:65) we would NEVER come to believe in Christ unto salvation all by ourselves. I don’t see that as regeneration yet. The approach of the soul to Christ is initiated by the Father, but He doesn't force us to come to Christ and believe in Him unto salvation. We must choose to come to Him and believe unto salvation once enabled. I don’t believe that God fatalistically determines who will and who won’t believe. The impulse to come to Christ comes from the Father though.
Click to expand...
And no Calvinist teaches God forces us to come to Him. We teach He effectually calls His elect ppl, but He enables them via divine quickening. But we don’t teach salvation is forced on anyone. Nor do we teach He drags us to Him kicking and screaming, either.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#145,520
#145,520
mailmandan said:
Here is how I understand it. Although it is our responsibility to choose to believe and we will be held accountable for unbelief (John 3:18) choosing to believe in Christ unto salvation is not "exclusively" a matter of human decision. Unless the Father draws us (John 6:44) and enables us/it has been granted by the Father (John 6:65) we would NEVER come to believe in Christ unto salvation all by ourselves. I don’t see that as regeneration yet. The approach of the soul to Christ is initiated by the Father, but He doesn't force us to come to Christ and believe in Him unto salvation. We must choose to come to Him and believe unto salvation once enabled. I don’t believe that God fatalistically determines who will and who won’t believe. The impulse to come to Christ comes from the Father though.
Click to expand...
Agree.... how is God glorified if it is by force?

My main point of contention always is that God only draws SOME, those He has chosen leaving others with no hope.. that is not supported in scripture.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.