Not By Works

[eternally-gratefull]

Because what they saw via natural revelation they attributed it to some sort of idol. Romans 1:18ff

according to the word prety much everyone did that,

but thats not the reason why, it’s because they know who god is, and know their sin condemns them.

they know half the gospel as truth.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That doesn’t mean He forces them to believe. He just works grace into their heart that just have to have Him as Lord and Savior.

So has anyone ever born again ever said no? Have they ever said, you know what God, I understand now, thanks, but I just do not want your salvation?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The above is difficult to decipher.

This sentence makes no sense "I can see you possibly misunderstandings my so will give you a Another chance,"

You're "giving" me another chance? Hmmmm. That sounds rather odd.

Just as I figured

oh well let’s go back

why do you refuse to answer this question? This was directed at me. I assume you think I do not deserve and answer?

This is rich, lol! Adam didn't need grace, didn't need saved, and wasn't lost. Lol!!!!
We always need Gods grace. Adam was lost and Adam needed saved. You are inept theologically to say otherwise.

Instigation? You really need to take a look at yourself and the gang and the behavior of all of you tonight. If you can't see it, well...that's what is sad.

once again, why did ADAM created PERFECT need salvation and grace BEFORE THE FALL?

 

[Magenta]

once again, why did ADAM created PERFECT need salvation and grace BEFORE THE FALL?

Adam had not eaten from the Tree of Life, and was not born again of the Spirit.

I do not believe Adam was created perfect, either. Creation was "good," and then "very good" after Eve was made.

We are perfected in Christ

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Adam had not eaten from the Tree of Life, and was not born again of the Spirit.

I do not believe Adam was created perfect, either. Creation was "good," and then "very good" after Eve was made.

We are perfected in Christ

So was Adam dead because of sin before the fall?

 

[jackrosie]

so you think Adam who was created in his perfect state BEFORE the fall needed grace? What was the purpose for his needing grace, and as a child of God already what did he need saved for?

Surely without God’s grace towards Adam..he would have been a mess?....he couldn’t survive without God could he?



Let sackcloth answer bro.....I’m talking after the fall......above.


I would like to understand from sackcloth why Adam would need grace from God before the fall..

He may not have meant before the fall..I don’t see he said that anywhere?

I’m finding it an interesting discussion...because we are all being calm and civil

It makes such a difference...

 

[Magenta]

So was Adam dead because of sin before the fall?

Adam had not sinned before the fall. Neither had he eaten from the Tree of Life.

Nor was he created immortal. God alone dwells in immortality.

 

[jackrosie]

So was Adam dead because of sin before the fall?

I am wondering that also,x

 

[jackrosie]

Adam had not sinned before the fall. Neither had he eaten from the Tree of Life.

So was he perfect in the eyes of God?....was he under grace?....he fell from grace after the fall?

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

so you think Adam who was created in his perfect state BEFORE the fall needed grace? What was the purpose for his needing grace, and as a child of God already what did he need saved for?

The saved need God’s Grace every day. That was poorly worded by me about salvation. I was agreeing he was perfect pre-fall.

 

[preacher4truth]

That is your understanding of it.....mine is the opposite.

It is refreshing to see you stepping out in faith in Gods Word, and that you are not swayed by the errors of many in this thread.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

So has anyone ever born again ever said no? Have they ever said, you know what God, I understand now, thanks, but I just do not want your salvation?

That’s all ppl do in their unregenerate state my friend. But God...[Eph. 2:4a]

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

according to the word prety much everyone did that,

but thats not the reason why, it’s because they know who god is, and know their sin condemns them.

they know half the gospel as truth.

I‘m referring to those who died never hearing the gospel. Natural revelation tells thems God exists as Creator, but not Savior. It doesn’t tell them what Paul wrote in 1 Cor. 15:1-4. It doesn’t them about the gospel and Christ dying and raising from the tomb three days later.

 

[preacher4truth]

Just as I figured

oh well let’s go back

why do you refuse to answer this question? This was directed at me. I assume you think I do not deserve and answer?

Nope. Let's not go back. Let's handle this and not skip out.

You say no one has put demands on God. You challenged me as if I made this up, and made pretense that you know no one has ever done that here. Again none of us are the spokesmen for others on this site. I've not placed myself in that stead.

Now, again, you said no one puts demands like I listed on God. Do you want the proof, or not?

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

The saved need God’s Grace every day. That was poorly worded by me about salvation. I was agreeing he was perfect pre-fall.

After reading another’s response, maybe perfect isn’t correct. He was created sinless, but he wasn’t in a state of where he could not have sinned. So, maybe perfect is not an apt description?

 

[fredoheaven]

Answer: Ephesians 2:5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—

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who were dead in trespasses and sins; not only dead in Adam, in whom they sinned, being their federal head and representative; and in a legal sense, the sentence of condemnation and death having passed upon them; but in a moral sense, through original sin, and their own actual transgressions: which death lies in a separation from God, Father, Son, and Spirit, such are without God, and are alienated from the life of God, and they are without Christ, who is the author and giver of life, and they are sensual, not having the Spirit, who is the spirit of life; and in a deformation of the image of God, such are dead as to their understandings, wills, and affections, with respect to spiritual things, and as to their capacity to do any thing that is spiritually good; and in a loss of original righteousness; and in a privation of the sense of sin and misery; and in a servitude to sin, Satan, and the world: hence it appears, that man must be in himself unacceptable to God, infectious and hurtful to his fellow creatures, and incapable of helping himself: so it was usual with the Jews to call a wicked and ignorant man, a dead man; they say - John Gill

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We who were dead are quickened (Eph_2:5), we are saved from the death of sin and have a principle of spiritual life implanted in us. Grace in the soul is a new life in the soul. As death locks up the senses, seals up all the powers and faculties, so does a state of sin, as to any thing that is good. Grace unlocks and opens all, and enlarges the soul. Observe, A regenerate sinner becomes a living soul: he lives a life of sanctification, being born of God; - Matthew Henry

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Even when we were dead] This is again repeated, because hardly believed. We are apt to conceit better of ourselves than there is cause for, and can hardly be persuaded that we are dead in sins and trespasses, and lie rotting and stinking in the graves of corruption, much worse than Lazarus did after he had lain four days in his sepulchre. We would be sorry but our penny should be as good silver as another’s, and are ready, with the Pharisee, to set up our counter for a thousand pound. In fine, a dead woman we say must have four to carry her forth. A man shall have much ado to persuade the merry Greeks of this world, but that they have the only life of it, and that others are dead in comparison of them. Hence this iteration of the blow upon the natural man, to knock him down dead, as it were, to bring him to Paul’s pass, Rom_7:9. - John Trapp

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Even when we were dead in our sins. Repeated from Eph_2:1, in order to set in its true light the declaration that follows of what God did for us to make more emphatic the free and sovereign mercy of God. Though sin is the abominable thing which he hates, loathsome to him in the last degree, he did not turn from us when we were immersed in it; nor did he wait till we began to move towards him: he began to influence us even when we were dead. Made us alive together with Christ (συνεζωοποίησε τῷ Χριστῷ). Made us alive with the life which is in Christ and which flows from Christ. - The Complete Pulpit Commentary

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Again, you ask how? The answer is summed up in all the above in two words; "But God..." Ephesians 2:4.

So that when you said 'always' means is not always. Thanks

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Surely without God’s grace towards Adam..he would have been a mess?....he couldn’t survive without God could he?



Let sackcloth answer bro.....I’m talking after the fall......above.


I would like to understand from sackcloth why Adam would need grace from God before the fall..

He may not have meant before the fall..I don’t see he said that anywhere?

I’m finding it an interesting discussion...because we are all being calm and civil

It makes such a difference...

Hey sis thanks. I agree after the fall Adam would not survive with out Gods Grace in fact without Gods grace he should immediately Been cast to hell in my view The fact he was not and God still clothed him and his wife
Proves Gods Grace immediately went Into affect

We will see it ashes answers but I am more waiting for preacher to answer as he is the one who originally called
Me out for believing as I did in that area

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

Surely without God’s grace towards Adam..he would have been a mess?....he couldn’t survive without God could he?



Let sackcloth answer bro.....I’m talking after the fall......above.


I would like to understand from sackcloth why Adam would need grace from God before the fall..

He may not have meant before the fall..I don’t see he said that anywhere?

I’m finding it an interesting discussion...because we are all being calm and civil

It makes such a difference...

Our life comes from Him, both physical and spiritual. He is what sustains our lives pre and post salvation. That’s why I believe Adam, even while sinless, still needed God‘s grace. The day we believe we don’t need it, we are in BIG TIME trouble. I need His grace every second of my life.

 

[preacher4truth]

I‘m referring to those who died never hearing the gospel. Natural revelation tells thems God exists as Creator, but not Savior. It doesn’t tell them what Paul wrote in 1 Cor. 15:1-4. It doesn’t them about the gospel and Christ dying and raising from the tomb three days later.

Once people understand the true Gospel and in it that God does not owe man a thing, nor does he owe any man opportunity, their understanding of God will grow by leaps and bounds, and their fear and awe of him will grow exponentially.

I get the feeling listening to messages, blogs, social media of people talking about God that they think he is a pushover. And that is scary!

People should consider this;

Imagine: God has no right, according to some, to exercise justice on a human at any given moment, who is sinful, guilty, wicked, lost, unless he first gives them an opportunity for salvation (mercy.) The description of the human here is applicable to all.

If (really "since") He does not do this (offer every single person ever an opportunity) he is deemed unfair and not a God of love, and is subject to mans criteria. Isn't this man making God in his own image? Why yes, of course it is.

No judge on this earth would be held to such a standard, nor would they be judged by the same criteria, demanding they give every criminal an opportunity to vote for receiving mercy, or not. That would be absolutely absurd and such a judge would be removed from the bench. An earthly judge has the authority to exercise justice at will, and does so.

God has that same right, but his right transcends mans by unimaginable lengths because he is holy, perfect, just, and good.

God shows mercy to whom He wills to show mercy, and also reveals himself to whom he wills. Note Exodus 33:12-23; Matthew 11:25-30; Romans 9. He does not owe this to all men.

 

[jackrosie]

It is refreshing to see you stepping out in faith in Gods Word, and that you are not swayed by the errors of many in this thread.

Thank you..it’s taken a while for me to be able to do that.....but feel safe to do so...without fear of being attacked.

Thanks to oncefallen warning.....I needed that warning also because I know I had been very rude to you and others on here.

I feel much safer now to discuss and ask questions.....x