Not By Works
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I am really trying to understand your thoughts on this: I think maybe what you are saying is that God did not give them a choice of whether they wanted to eat the fruit or not. That is true he did not give them that choice. He made a command and an ultimatum in that, he said do not eat it or you will die. That was the choice that he gave them... do what I say or pay the consequences. They chose to disobey.
Same as if your mother made hot dogs for supper and said eat your supper or you will get in trouble. She didn't give you the choice of eating something else, but still gave you a choice in whether you would obey and follow the rules, or not obey and get in trouble.
Then again, I could be wrong on your reasoning here, but this is just something to think about.
Same as if your mother made hot dogs for supper and said eat your supper or you will get in trouble. She didn't give you the choice of eating something else, but still gave you a choice in whether you would obey and follow the rules, or not obey and get in trouble.
Then again, I could be wrong on your reasoning here, but this is just something to think about.
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Umm, doing a personal study of the word has its benefits and there are many ways to do that. My personal bible study starts with prayer as I ask the Holy Spirit to lead and enlighten. One of the most important principles of studying the word of God is always to interpret according to the context of the verse. This means considers the preceding and immediately following the verse, word or topic to make sure that you are setting on that which God’s intended meaning. Example:
John 6:44 King James Version (KJV)
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
So what is the preceding verse? If you are going back on v41, the Jews murmured. Why? Because as the same verse says, Jesus is the bread which came down from heaven that gives life everlasting. Tracing further back will lead to the narrative reasons of their murmurings. Part of that text of v.41 will lead us even further to vv.22-40 for the whole background of the story. It says coming and drawing of the people because not only of seeing the miracles of Jesus but also did eat of the loaves or the physical bread and were filled. (v.26). The context is also about not to labor (a.ka. ‘not of works which we have done’) but that which everlasting life is given to us by Christ (v.27) of similarity that the gift is eternal life though Christ (Romans 6:23).
To continue, after Jesus heard them asserted that eternal life is the work of God, it’s nothing about their works (as in ‘not of yourselves, it is the gift of God’) and belief on Christ is all the necessary thing (v.29). The issue therefore is everlasting life through Jesus Christ and how to own/possess it, but as far as the Jew is concerned, they seek sign (Greek seeks knowledge) in order to believe as even citing the O.T. of the giving of the manna (instance of miracle) yet Jesus told them that the giving of himself by the Father as the true bread had came down from heaven who has the power to give life unto the world (v.33).This do not limit the works of God to only a few. The gift of everlasting life that Christ gives is to all yet only those who comes or believes are the ones that shall never hunger or thirst. Apparently, the following verses of our text says of Christ making an invitation of eating this bread (figuratively)which Christ is offering to include all people (v. 51, 54) to have eternal life and will be raised up of the last day (either by rapture or the resurrection). The words “if any man” and “whoso” is very telling of the offering.
So that the background as far as the text is concerned, speaks nothing to do of God choosing for some to salvation. The Bible, rather talks about the coming and drawing of the people unto him. Even the word ‘draw’ has nothing to do with choosing beforehand. It has something the Father coming through, via the teaching and hearing the word of God (v. 45). So only after being taught, heard or learned the words of God may come or believe Christ for eternal life (47).
God bless
John 6:44 King James Version (KJV)
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
So what is the preceding verse? If you are going back on v41, the Jews murmured. Why? Because as the same verse says, Jesus is the bread which came down from heaven that gives life everlasting. Tracing further back will lead to the narrative reasons of their murmurings. Part of that text of v.41 will lead us even further to vv.22-40 for the whole background of the story. It says coming and drawing of the people because not only of seeing the miracles of Jesus but also did eat of the loaves or the physical bread and were filled. (v.26). The context is also about not to labor (a.ka. ‘not of works which we have done’) but that which everlasting life is given to us by Christ (v.27) of similarity that the gift is eternal life though Christ (Romans 6:23).
To continue, after Jesus heard them asserted that eternal life is the work of God, it’s nothing about their works (as in ‘not of yourselves, it is the gift of God’) and belief on Christ is all the necessary thing (v.29). The issue therefore is everlasting life through Jesus Christ and how to own/possess it, but as far as the Jew is concerned, they seek sign (Greek seeks knowledge) in order to believe as even citing the O.T. of the giving of the manna (instance of miracle) yet Jesus told them that the giving of himself by the Father as the true bread had came down from heaven who has the power to give life unto the world (v.33).This do not limit the works of God to only a few. The gift of everlasting life that Christ gives is to all yet only those who comes or believes are the ones that shall never hunger or thirst. Apparently, the following verses of our text says of Christ making an invitation of eating this bread (figuratively)which Christ is offering to include all people (v. 51, 54) to have eternal life and will be raised up of the last day (either by rapture or the resurrection). The words “if any man” and “whoso” is very telling of the offering.
So that the background as far as the text is concerned, speaks nothing to do of God choosing for some to salvation. The Bible, rather talks about the coming and drawing of the people unto him. Even the word ‘draw’ has nothing to do with choosing beforehand. It has something the Father coming through, via the teaching and hearing the word of God (v. 45). So only after being taught, heard or learned the words of God may come or believe Christ for eternal life (47).
God bless
What the scriptures teach exactly is that all men in the world can receive the gift of God by repenting and believing the gospel, that Christ died for their sins (past sins; Romans 3:25), and remain on the path to eternal life by continuing faithfully in God's word, walking worthy of it, having being made suitable for the vocation by the blood of Christ (Colossians 1:12).
^^^ That is what is taught in scripture exactly.
What is not taught in scripture in any exact terms is OSAS (no matter what you do). You need man's exact words for that doctrine...
^^^ That is what is taught in scripture exactly.
What is not taught in scripture in any exact terms is OSAS (no matter what you do). You need man's exact words for that doctrine...
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How is osas any different than eternal
Life
Eternal life means our salvation is secure forever. If osas makes us think we can sin all we want believing we have eternal life would do the same
there really is no difference
People turn the grace of god to licentiousness. It does not mean grace is a bad thing. More does it mean they are saved. We do not do as many do and reject grace alone because few people may use it as a get out of hell free card and try to add works. Or claim eternal life or osas or eternal security or whatever we call it is not true
Life
Eternal life means our salvation is secure forever. If osas makes us think we can sin all we want believing we have eternal life would do the same
there really is no difference
People turn the grace of god to licentiousness. It does not mean grace is a bad thing. More does it mean they are saved. We do not do as many do and reject grace alone because few people may use it as a get out of hell free card and try to add works. Or claim eternal life or osas or eternal security or whatever we call it is not true
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Genesis 2:16-17
And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “You may surely eat of every tree of the garden, but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.
If God had not placed that tree of the knowledge of good and evil, there would have been no choice. But He did and thereby they were given the freedom to choose good vs evil. Call it His command, call it whatever name one wants to give it, but they were given freedom to choose to Obey or not to Obey. It has been such a choice from the minute God created mankind. It is still a matter of choice today.
And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “You may surely eat of every tree of the garden, but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.
If God had not placed that tree of the knowledge of good and evil, there would have been no choice. But He did and thereby they were given the freedom to choose good vs evil. Call it His command, call it whatever name one wants to give it, but they were given freedom to choose to Obey or not to Obey. It has been such a choice from the minute God created mankind. It is still a matter of choice today.
I can't recall any scripture that says you have a choice concerning Adam & Eve.
Yes it was a command but
Genesis 2:15-17
15 Then the Lord God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to tend and keep it. 16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”
So it seems to me there is a command but an acknowledgement that if they do then there are consequences.
If that's the case then does not free will come into place here.
"I say do not do it, but if you do then"
If we look at
Ephesians 4:30
30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
It's the same as a command. "DO NOT"
If you do then there are consequences.
If we look at the commandments that Jesus gave.
They are commandments, so do not do.
Jesus talked about loving our enemies and pray for those who persecute you. Look it Up.
That's a command but we have a choice to do that.
Jesus said unless you forgive you will not be forgiven.
It's a command to forgive because if you do not then you won't.
That's similar to the command in Genesis.
If you don't then these are the consequences.
Yes it was a command but
Genesis 2:15-17
15 Then the Lord God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to tend and keep it. 16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”
So it seems to me there is a command but an acknowledgement that if they do then there are consequences.
If that's the case then does not free will come into place here.
"I say do not do it, but if you do then"
If we look at
Ephesians 4:30
30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
It's the same as a command. "DO NOT"
If you do then there are consequences.
If we look at the commandments that Jesus gave.
They are commandments, so do not do.
Jesus talked about loving our enemies and pray for those who persecute you. Look it Up.
That's a command but we have a choice to do that.
Jesus said unless you forgive you will not be forgiven.
It's a command to forgive because if you do not then you won't.
That's similar to the command in Genesis.
If you don't then these are the consequences.
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I agree. I thought about it before posting, but couldn't get it all in there right...lol I was trying to make it simple to show that no, they couldn't say... Well God we really want to eat from the tree of knowledge and he would have been ok with it, because it was forbidden to them. They did have other choices ...and yes, maybe I simplified a little too much so thanks for adding this.
King James Bible
I Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
I Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
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well we will have to agree to disagree
but be warned
if you say OSAS is not biblical. People WILL believe you believe salvation can be lost. There is no getting out of that.
OSAS in its pure form means this
A person who has come to Christ, after being drawm by him a,d led tp him by grace through faith. Is saved (not by any works of righteousness which they did, but by Gods mercy) and as a child of God. they will ALWAYS be saved.
to say osas is wrong is to say this is wrong. Because when we say we believe in OSAS, this is what we are claiming
but be warned
if you say OSAS is not biblical. People WILL believe you believe salvation can be lost. There is no getting out of that.
OSAS in its pure form means this
A person who has come to Christ, after being drawm by him a,d led tp him by grace through faith. Is saved (not by any works of righteousness which they did, but by Gods mercy) and as a child of God. they will ALWAYS be saved.
to say osas is wrong is to say this is wrong. Because when we say we believe in OSAS, this is what we are claiming
John 3:17
For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him.
Ezekiel 18:32
For I take no pleasure in anyone's death, declares the Lord GOD. So repent and live!
For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him.
Ezekiel 18:32
For I take no pleasure in anyone's death, declares the Lord GOD. So repent and live!
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I believe in eternal life....osas words are wrong to me because they aren’t biblical....I cant go against God’s word.
So I don’t mind what others think...I am not a people pleaser I am a God pleaser.
I don’t have God’s permission to use the terminology...Once Saved Always Saved,x
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