Not By Works

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Dec 12, 2013
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I am really disturbed that people can post and say adamently that they could care less about context
And how do you know, with absolute certainty, that you are not the one in error?

By the number of "likes" you get?
I could care less about likes and that reply was childish....
 

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
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I did not interpret those scriptures out of context and I also properly harmonized scripture with scripture before reaching my conclusion on doctrine.

Matthew 7:21 - Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

These many people (unbelievers) in Matthew 7:22 had the wrong foundation. They were trusting in their works to save them and NOT IN CHRIST ALONE. Jesus NEVER knew them which means they were NEVER saved. Their hearts were not right with God, so their "attempted external obedience" (apart from the righteousness of God which is by faith and the blood of Christ) was stained with sin. Seeking salvation by works is not the will of the Father.

John 17:3 - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with Him, not merely theoretical knowledge. These many people were not true converts.

Matthew 7:22 - And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who PRACTICE lawlessness’... in contrast with putting the words of Jesus into PRACTICE. (Matthew 7:24) As we read on from Matthew 7:24 through verse 27, we find two different foundations with two different results, and not salvation by works, as some would suppose. Each house has a different material upon which its foundation is laid, and each house has a different final outcome. One house is built by a wise man upon a rock and it stands. The other is built by a foolish man upon the sand and it collapses. The rock the wise man builds upon is true righteousness found in Jesus Christ alone. The sand the foolish man builds upon is self-righteousness. Only those who truly believe in Him (demonstrative evidence) are wise and hear the words of Jesus and properly act on them.

Refusing to obey God is the (demonstrative evidence) that we have not yet come to know God.

You must not confuse conditions for coming to know Him/keeping His teachings with actions that demonstrate we have already come to know Him. You also must not confuse "descriptive" passages of scripture with "prescriptive" passages of scripture. The end result is salvation by works.
@mailmandan ...
I believe Dorothy has been banned...
...xox...
 
Jan 12, 2019
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I am really disturbed that people can post and say adamently that they could care less about context

I could care less about likes and that reply was childish....
Are you then willing to understand other people’s opposing point of view? I am not asking you to adopt them.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
Are you then willing to understand other people’s opposing point of view? I am not asking you to adopt them.
What is there to understand...we judge all views against scripture..not the other way around.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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My perspective is always entertain the possibility that one is viewing something from a different lens. It is truth for them, even if they don't agree with your particular lens.

You may hold something to be absolute truth for you, but if others don't see it the same way as you, there is no need to come down hard on them. Be patient, and learn to agree to disagree.
The way you speak of Truth sounds like you do not know Truth personally. His Name is Jesus.
 
May 31, 2020
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Good point. As you can see, this thread is occupied by a number of people who use the word "truth" loosely.

Whatever they regard as truth for them, they want to believe it is THE truth for all.

After all, if you see it from their perspective, if they really believe what they hold as truth is THE truth, then by definition, anyone who disagrees with them must be preaching falsehood, a twister of the Word of God, and so on and so forth.
Jesus Christ is Truth.
 
May 19, 2020
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1John 4:7-8

“Beloved,let us love one another,for Love is from God,
and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God.
Anyone who does not love does not know God,because God is Love.”

God’s Love Reigns!..my words.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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Jesus Christ is Truth.
Amen. I was specifically asking about Jesus Christ, and got opinions about opinions instead. Opinions that were claimed to be their perspective, while they do not practice what they preach.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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But it does not follow that Your view about Jesus is also the Truth correct?
I specifically asked about absolute truth. You went off on some tangent speaking loosely about truth as opinions after coming against such. Where do you stand on the matter, really? One minute you say one thing, and then when it suits you, you say the opposite.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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I specifically asked about absolute truth. You went off on some tangent speaking loosely about truth after coming against such. where do you stand on the matter, really? One minute you say one thing, and them when it suits you, you say the opposite.
Just because you don’t understand does not mean people are necessarily playing games with you.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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Just because you don’t understand does not mean people are necessarily playing games with you.
See what I mean? You have presented your opinion that I do not understand as if it is the truth when it is not. While pretending you are always entertaining the possibility that one is viewing something from a different lens, and should therefore not come down hard on them.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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See what I mean? You have presented your opinion that I do not understand as if it is the truth when it is not.
I am not presenting any truths to you in the first place.

I am telling you to always entertain the possibility, no matter how small, that what you hold as the truth may only be true, from your specific point of view.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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I am not presenting any truths to you in the first place.

I am telling you to always entertain the possibility, no matter how small, that what you hold as the truth may only be true, from your specific point of view.
If what you say is not true, why should anyone listen to you?

You don't seem to follow your own advice.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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Good point. As you can see, this thread is occupied by a number of people who use the word "truth" loosely.

Whatever they regard as truth for them, they want to believe it is THE truth for all.
I am not presenting any truths to you in the first place.
Which of these two statements of yours are we to accept as what you abide by? Do you use the word truth loosely and entertain the possibility you may be wrong, or do you present your opinion as if it is truth while saying others should not do that very same thing?
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
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Acts 18: 24 And a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, and mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus.

25 This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John.

26 And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.

27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:

28 For he mightily convinced the Jews, and that publicly, shewing by the scriptures that Jesus was Christ.

The proper of giving sense needs exposition or it must must be shewn by the scriptures. I like expository one.

    • The objectives of the method are:
      1. To teach how to study and correctly interpret the Scriptures.
      2. To teach how to develop a Sunday School lesson, devotional or sermon.
      3. To become familiar with Bible study helps such as dictionaries, handbooks, and concordances.
      4. To build confidence in one's ability to understand the Bible and to teach others.
  • The procedures of the method are:
    • 1. The chief activity will be personal study and practice using the Work Sheet and course instructions to guide you.
      2. You will be studying passages of Scripture in detail to decide what they are saying.
      3. Practical hands on use of Bible and Bible study helps will help build confidence.
      4. You will learn how to start a good Bible reference library.

https://www.bible-truth.org/ExpositoryBibleStudy.html#02
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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If you read Romans 8:5-9, Paul meticulously shows the unregenerate and regenerate ppl. Those who are unregenerate are hostile (KJV uses at enmity, which means to have an ill-will towards) God. They hate Him in their fallen and unregenerate state. They have hearts of stone that cannot love Him. That is why He must first give them a new heart and spirit whereby they can love Him. He has to do a spiritual CPR on them, seeing they are dead in transgressions and sin. He has to divinely quicken them, in this divine quickening He imparts faith and repentance, they exercise them and are saved. All this happens simultaneously.
I realize you are no longer with us, and I am sorry about that; I have had this page open in a separate tab for a while and want to close it, but will respond first, because here you plainly say that the regenerated person exercises faith and repentance and are saved, while also saying people play no role in their salvation, and speak to those who acknowledge they do as if we believe we are saving ourselves when we know it is Jesus Who saves, by grace, through faith, in His shed righteous blood, which reconciles us to God.

Do others see how these two positions do not square with each other? I believe they do :)

Though obviously not everyone ;)
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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You don’t have to listen to anyone's point of view. But it does not mean there will not be others who do.
Is this an endorsement of others listening to and believing lies?

The question was, if you are not speaking truth, why should anyone listen to you?

You have not really answered the question, have you?

Meanwhile you criticize others for not doing so, in your opinion.