Not By Works

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EleventhHour

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I did take it or leave :) and make sure you leave me a red X too so I can demonstrate how you will still be here :)
I actually "disliked" your post on your thread because as I read through the posts you made it personal once your knowledge was challenged.
 

CS1

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May 23, 2012
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I actually "disliked" your post on your thread because as I read through the posts you made it personal once your knowledge was challenged.
out of respect of this thread please pm me or make that's own ON my thread instead of doing so on your friends thread here. That is rude. Try to stay on topic. thank you
 

Guojing

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Jan 12, 2019
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I am not avoiding ... you however seem to be implying we save ourselves by our love?
I am not saying that. I am telling you that is what John is saying in 1 John.

Go thru those verses I have listed in all his 5 chapters and tell me what conclusion one will draw, regarding what John was teaching.

I already told you what time period I believed the NT books of Hebrews to Revelations apply right? During the Tribulation, will it be faith alone in the finished work of Christ on the cross that will save you?

Incidentally, Revelations 14:12 repeated exactly what John was saying, he wrote that final book too. John is consistent throughout the books he wrote.
 

Guojing

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The only PEOPLE that DO NOT LOVE WITH AGAPE LOVE, are those Who are NOT BORN AGAIN.

JESUS SAID:
Matthew 7:13-14 (NKJV)
13 "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.
14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.


They have NEVER been BORN AGAIN, even though they sit on a PEW every Sunday.

It is not THAT YOU GO TO CHURCH that Counts, IT IS WHY YOU GO TO CHURCH THAT COUNTS.

If that motive is not You LOVE HIM with that Self-Sacrificial LOVE, it is worthless to GOD.
To confirm, you are saying you believe that if a Christian who believed that Jesus Christ died on the cross and was raised again for his justification (1 Cor 15:1-4), but don't love his brother after that, he is still unsaved?
 

Guojing

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We are to love one another as God loves us but that does not mean we are to love actions when those actions, words, behavior goes against God and His Word. Even though God loves us He does not always love our actions, behavior.
But according to John in 1 John 3:15, if I hate my brother after I am saved, I am a murderer and I no longer have eternal life?
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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To confirm, you are saying you believe that if a Christian who believed that Jesus Christ died on the cross and was raised again for his justification (1 Cor 15:1-4), but don't love his brother after that, he is still unsaved?
YES, is the answer to you question, because the HOLY SPIRIT when HE comes in WILL change your Human Spirit to be like HIM.

When we genuinely receive HIM as LORD, meaning MASTER; we are giving HIM Control to Change anything in our HEART (Human Spirit), including Genuine Agape Love, for some one we could not stand before. That is what Born Again is all about, showing our LOVE to others, and to HIM.


John 3:6 (HCSB)
6 Whatever is born of the flesh is flesh, and whatever is born of the Spirit is spirit.

See Born Again only effects the human spirit. Yes the body learning to walk like Jesus, is a Struggle at first. But it will get easier and easier as we Mature Spiritually.




NO, my personal Belief, is I am with that sincere AGAPE LOVE relationship with JESUS CHRIST, which is that BORN AGAIN RELATIONSHIP, that is GENUINE FAITH. Believing in your HEAD, is what the DEMONS DO, and will not SAVE. Believing in your HEART (HUMAN SPIRIT) will eternally SAVE Your Human Spirit, and takes but a moment in time. THEN after you are SAVED you can start on SANCTIFICATION, which will take you a LIFETIME and More. Your Body will not be Rid of your Sin Nature {Perfect}, until the Resurrection.
 

Guojing

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2019
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YES, is the answer to you question, because the HOLY SPIRIT when HE comes in WILL change your Human Spirit to be like HIM.

When we genuinely receive HIM as LORD, meaning MASTER; we are giving HIM Control to Change anything in our HEART (Human Spirit), including Genuine Agape Love, for some one we could not stand before. That is what Born Again is all about, showing our LOVE to others, and to HIM.


John 3:6 (HCSB)
6 Whatever is born of the flesh is flesh, and whatever is born of the Spirit is spirit.

See Born Again only effects the human spirit. Yes the body learning to walk like Jesus, is a Struggle at first. But it will get easier and easier as we Mature Spiritually.




NO, my personal Belief, is I am with that sincere AGAPE LOVE relationship with JESUS CHRIST, which is that BORN AGAIN RELATIONSHIP, that is GENUINE FAITH. Believing in your HEAD, is what the DEMONS DO, and will not SAVE. Believing in your HEART (HUMAN SPIRIT) will eternally SAVE Your Human Spirit, and takes but a moment in time. THEN after you are SAVED you can start on SANCTIFICATION, which will take you a LIFETIME and More. Your Body will not be Rid of your Sin Nature {Perfect}, until the Resurrection.
Alright then, so other than believing in 1 Cor 15:1-4, you also believe that loving your brother is also necessary to be saved.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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To confirm, you are saying you believe that if a Christian who believed that Jesus Christ died on the cross and was raised again for his justification (1 Cor 15:1-4), but don't love his brother after that, he is still unsaved?
YES, is the answer to your question, because the HOLY SPIRIT when HE comes in to birth your Human Spirit, HE WILL change your Human Spirit to be like HIM.

When we genuinely receive HIM as LORD, meaning MASTER; we are giving HIM Control to Change anything in our HEART (Human Spirit), including Genuine Agape Love, for some one we could not stand before. That is what Born Again is all about, showing our LOVE to others, and to HIM.


John 3:6 (HCSB)
6 Whatever is born of the flesh is flesh, and whatever is born of the Spirit is spirit.

See Born Again only effects the human spirit. Yes the body learning to walk like Jesus, is a Struggle at first. But it will get easier and easier as we Mature Spiritually.


1 John 3:14 (HCSB)
14 We know that we have passed from death to life because we love our brothers. The one who does not love remains in death.

1 John 4:19-20 (ESV)
19 We love because he first loved us.
20 If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen.

Let me give you a little Secret. If you have someone in your life that you have a hard time to not hate that individual, the SECRET is to learn to PRAY for that individual SINCERELY everyday. It becomes impossible to hate someone you are actively PRAYING FOR. Another Secret is every time you see that person, tell yourself, IF NOT FOR THE GRACE OF GOD, THERE GOES I.

My personal Belief, is I have that sincere AGAPE LOVE relationship with JESUS CHRIST, which is that BORN AGAIN RELATIONSHIP, that is GENUINE FAITH. Believing in your HEAD, is what the DEMONS DO, and will not SAVE. Believing in your HEART (HUMAN SPIRIT) will eternally SAVE Your Human Spirit, and takes but a moment in time. THEN after you are SAVED you can start on SANCTIFICATION, which will take you a LIFETIME and More. Your Body will not be Rid of your Sin Nature {Perfect}, until the Resurrection. We keep on Pressing for the Goal, as Paul would say.


Romans 10:8-10 (HCSB)
8 On the contrary, what does it say? The message is near you, in your mouth and in your heart. This is the message of faith that we proclaim:
9 If you confess {not merely PROFESS, because I has to be True IN YOUR HEART (Human Spirit) before YOU can say it as a CONFESSION} with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart {not the mind between your ears} that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 One believes with the heart, resulting in righteousness, and one confesses with the mouth, resulting in salvation.


I have heard more that one Minister use this ANALOGY. The distance between UNSAVED and SAVED, is only 18". The Same distance between the Human Mind, and the Human Heart or Human Spirit.
 

VCO

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Oct 14, 2013
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Alright then, so other than believing in 1 Cor 15:1-4, you also believe that loving your bbrother is also necessary to be saved.

Now there you go again, you see to be watching certain Check Marks to be sure you have covered all the requirements. THAT IS NOT IT AT ALL. It is establishing an inner, Personal Relationship with the LORD JESUS CHRIST. Do you ever talk to JESUS other than formal Prayer. I do that daily, YOU NEED TO KNOW HIM INTIMATELY AND PERSONALLY. Do you ever Cry in Church or at home? Some songs just touch my heart, and tears are just streaming done my face. I make it a habit that when ever I Hear and ambulance of the Life Flight Helicopter, as the fly right over my HOUSE, so I immediately I start Praying for both the Patient and the staff on those Helicopters and Ambulances, and Tears flow down my face as I am praying. This evening I was watching a E R TEAM on 6 at a hospital with the young woman that was Stabbed. I start Praying just like the Live Helicopters. I know it was all over and done with, but GOD KNOWS MY HEART.
And went I heard she had died in transport, I started crying all the more. That is the way I KNOW AGAPE LOVE IS IN MY HEART.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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Now there you go again, you see to be watching certain Check Marks to be sure you have covered all the requirements. THAT IS NOT IT AT ALL. It is establishing an inner, Personal Relationship with the LORD JESUS CHRIST. Do you ever talk to JESUS other than formal Prayer. I do that daily, YOU NEED TO KNOW HIM INTIMATELY AND PERSONALLY. Do you ever Cry in Church or at home? Some songs just touch my heart, and tears are just streaming done my face. I make it a habit that when ever I Hear and ambulance of the Life Flight Helicopter, as the fly right over my HOUSE, so I immediately I start Praying for both the Patient and the staff on those Helicopters and Ambulances, and Tears flow down my face as I am praying. This evening I was watching a E R TEAM on 6 at a hospital with the young woman that was Stabbed. I start Praying just like the Live Helicopters. I know it was all over and done with, but GOD KNOWS MY HEART.
And went I heard she had died in transport, I started crying all the more. That is the way I KNOW AGAPE LOVE IS IN MY HEART.
 

Guojing

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2019
7,494
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Now there you go again, you see to be watching certain Check Marks to be sure you have covered all the requirements. THAT IS NOT IT AT ALL. It is establishing an inner, Personal Relationship with the LORD JESUS CHRIST. Do you ever talk to JESUS other than formal Prayer. I do that daily, YOU NEED TO KNOW HIM INTIMATELY AND PERSONALLY. Do you ever Cry in Church or at home? Some songs just touch my heart, and tears are just streaming done my face. I make it a habit that when ever I Hear and ambulance of the Life Flight Helicopter, as the fly right over my HOUSE, so I immediately I start Praying for both the Patient and the staff on those Helicopters and Ambulances, and Tears flow down my face as I am praying. This evening I was watching a E R TEAM on 6 at a hospital with the young woman that was Stabbed. I start Praying just like the Live Helicopters. I know it was all over and done with, but GOD KNOWS MY HEART.
And went I heard she had died in transport, I started crying all the more. That is the way I KNOW AGAPE LOVE IS IN MY HEART.
At least you are willing to take what John was saying in 1 John 3:15 literally.

I can respect that.
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
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North Carolina
But according to John in 1 John 3:15, if I hate my brother after I am saved, I am a murderer and I no longer have eternal life?
Did you read my post thoroughly? I said we are to love others as Christ loves us BUT we are not to love their ACTIONS if those actions discredit the Lord.

I just have to laugh at those who read and then fill in their very own interpretation of what is being said.
 

star

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Nov 8, 2017
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That would be incorrect.

John does not state works of love are required for righteousness but rather that is how we should be known.

This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins.
Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.

I totally agree that we are to love one another but I do not believe we are to love any action perpetrated by a sister or brother which denigrates our Lord. We can love the person yet we can hate any derogatory action. This I stand by firmly.

The only way any of us are considered "righteous" is because God sees us through the glasses of His Righteousness. Any works we may do will be scrutinized by Himself. Our works are as filthy rags unless the past the test of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ
 

Guojing

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2019
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Did you read my post thoroughly? I said we are to love others as Christ loves us BUT we are not to love their ACTIONS if those actions discredit the Lord.

I just have to laugh at those who read and then fill in their very own interpretation of what is being said.
So what do you think John was saying in 1 John 3:15 then?
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
10,956
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Now there you go again, you see to be watching certain Check Marks to be sure you have covered all the requirements. THAT IS NOT IT AT ALL. It is establishing an inner, Personal Relationship with the LORD JESUS CHRIST. Do you ever talk to JESUS other than formal Prayer. I do that daily, YOU NEED TO KNOW HIM INTIMATELY AND PERSONALLY. Do you ever Cry in Church or at home? Some songs just touch my heart, and tears are just streaming done my face. I make it a habit that when ever I Hear and ambulance of the Life Flight Helicopter, as the fly right over my HOUSE, so I immediately I start Praying for both the Patient and the staff on those Helicopters and Ambulances, and Tears flow down my face as I am praying. This evening I was watching a E R TEAM on 6 at a hospital with the young woman that was Stabbed. I start Praying just like the Live Helicopters. I know it was all over and done with, but GOD KNOWS MY HEART.
And went I heard she had died in transport, I started crying all the more. That is the way I KNOW AGAPE LOVE IS IN MY HEART.

When I look back to 5 years ago, when I bought this house, I know GOD wanted me here. At first, I rejected this house, and went and looked at several others. But Came back to this HOUSE and bought it. He wanted me here, to earnestly pray for the people, and the crews working on the Patients in flight. I am about 8 blocks from the Hospital, that has the most famous heart team in Nebraska. A lot of the Life Flights in that chopper are coming in hot with a Patient that had a severe heart attack. Somebody should be praying for those People and the Medical Staff. And I guess, I am it. When it is critical, they come in LOW, full speed, and set it down as fast as possible. When it is not so much of an emergency, they circle the Hospital and then land. So YES, GOD wanted me in this house.

There are Different Ministries for Different People, but I am where I need to be.

I see you are asking different People the same question you asked me. Are you Trying to hang on to your hatred, and hopefully justify it? It will not work. Do you know what you are doing by not letting go of it? You have put a road block in front of GOD, so that HE will not REPAY the offense. Remember, we are to Forgive as we have been Forgiven TOTALLY!


Deuteronomy 32:35-36 (NASB)
35 'Vengeance is Mine, and retribution, In due time their foot will slip; For the day of their calamity is near, And the impending things are hastening upon them.'
36 "For the LORD will vindicate His people, And will have compassion on His servants, When He sees that their strength is gone, And there is none remaining, bond or free.


Even if you show bitterness for the offence, then GOD is not obligated to repay the offense.


Romans 12:19-21 (NASB)
19 Never take your own revenge, beloved, but leave room for the wrath of God, for it is written, "VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY," says the Lord.
20 "BUT IF YOUR ENEMY IS HUNGRY, FEED HIM, AND IF HE IS THIRSTY, GIVE HIM A DRINK; FOR IN SO DOING YOU WILL HEAP BURNING COALS ON HIS HEAD."
21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
 

star

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Nov 8, 2017
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North Carolina
So what do you think John was saying in 1 John 3:15 then?
Just what he said. Love others as we are loved. However, do you think Our Lord loves our "bad actions?" That doesn't mean we are not loved. You are still mincing words and not reading my post for what it says.