Not By Works

[OneFaith]

You examples are flawed in the fact god does not just offer his gift to his family or a particular group of people, he offered it to everyone,

for god so loved the world. Not just a select group, that whoever believes.

believe is not a requirement because it is not an action, it is a state which causes an action

the tax collector got on his knee to cry out for mercy, God gave it to him, he did not earn salvation by any requirement, he called out and God acted

I did not only use family as an example. You might not have read all my replies, but I used family, employees, customers, etc. My point being that a specific group was chosen without earning it. . Yes, God so loved the whole entire world that He gave all the opportunity to be saved, but most will not be saved. God gives the gift of salvation to only a select few. Jesus said “Wide is the road that leads to destruction (hell), and most enter it, but narrow is the road that leads to life (heaven) and few find it.” What do the few find? The requirement for salvation, and conform to it.

You say belief is not obedience, but Hebrews 3:18,19 shows that disbelief is the same as disobey. Belief is obeying, but it is not the only thing we must obey- there is also repentance, baptism, remaining faithful till the end, partaking of the Lord’s Supper, personal relationship fellowship with God, so, so many other things. Jesus says if you love Him you will obey His commands, and the bible says that even if you give all you possess to the poor, and surrender your body to flames (being a martyr for God) but have not love you gain nothing (no salvation). So what does Jesus count as love? obedience.

Yes, Jesus had the power and authority to forgive sins on the earth BEFORE He died, was resurrected, and established His church that He purchased with His own blood. But now we must join Him in His death by way of baptism- in His death is where He shed His blood. (Romans 6:3). We must also stay in contact with His blood by partaking of the Lord’s Supper. Jesus says “Unless you eat of the flesh of the Son of Man, and drink His blood, you have no life in you.” (no eternal life aka salvation). (John 6:53).

 

[goanna]

I'm amazed that there are so many posts on this subject. This usually means it's made some people uncomfortable, though I don't know why.

 

[OneFaith]

Your theory is COMPLETELY WRONG. A TRUE GIFT HAS NO REQUIREMENT.

Romans 11:6 (NASB)
6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

Romans 4:3-5 (HCSB)
3 For what does the Scripture say? Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him for righteousness.
4 Now to the one who works, pay is not considered as a gift, but as something owed.
5 But to the one who does not work, but believes on Him who declares the ungodly to be righteous, his faith is credited for righteousness.

Romans 3:28 (GWT)
28 We conclude that a person has God's approval by faith, not by his own efforts.

WHY ? ? ?

2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to
His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began. 🡸 End of subject.

Not everyone receives the gift of salvation- therefore there is a requirement.

 

[OneFaith]

Please pay attention to these LYRICS, as they are the ABSOLUTE TRUTH.

https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search;_ylt=AwrC5pbfehdgriAADOE0nIlQ;_ylu=c2VjA3NlYXJjaAR2dGlkAw--;_ylc=X1MDMTM1MTE5NTcwMARfcgMyBGFjdG4DY2xrBGNzcmNwdmlkA0h0RjZFekV3TGpGVXJ3YUtYX2FNRFFPeE1UQTBMZ0FBQUFCR3Bvc1kEZnIDeWhzLW5vcnRvbi1leHRfb25iBGZyMgNzYS1ncARncHJpZAM4dkpTVEY3TlRpU2YwdGxObko3ZFRBBG5fcnNsdAM2MARuX3N1Z2cDMTAEb3JpZ2luA3ZpZGVvLnNlYXJjaC55YWhvby5jb20EcG9zAzkEcHFzdHIDSmVzdXMlMjAEcHFzdHJsAzYEcXN0cmwDMjMEcXVlcnkDamVzdXMlMjBwYWlkJTIwaXQlMjBhbGwEdF9zdG1wAzE2MTIxNTM0ODU-?p=jesus+paid+it+all&ei=UTF-8&fr2=p:s,v:v,m:sa&fr=yhs-norton-ext_onb&hsimp=yhs-ext_onb&hspart=norton#id=24&vid=118050fa67ae4a521d6b2d3b35da8f01&action=view

I am not willing to go through this list of songs, but if you have a scripture for me, I am more than willing to examine that.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I did not only use family as an example. You might not have read all my replies, but I used family, employees, customers, etc. My point being that a specific group was chosen without earning it. . Yes, God so loved the whole entire world that He gave all the opportunity to be saved, but most will not be saved. God gives the gift of salvation to only a select few. Jesus said “Wide is the road that leads to destruction (hell), and most enter it, but narrow is the road that leads to life (heaven) and few find it.” What do the few find? The requirement for salvation, and conform to it.

yes, I read your post, I just responded to a few of your examples, and stated that all the examples you gave would fit.

as you admit here, Jesus died for all, hence right there your examples do not fit, because in your examples. The gifts were not for everyone but only for the select people you mentioned.

You say belief is not obedience, but Hebrews 3:18,19 shows that disbelief is the same as disobey. Belief is obeying, but it is not the only thing we must obey- there is also repentance, baptism, remaining faithful till the end, partaking of the Lord’s Supper, personal relationship fellowship with God, so, so many other things. Jesus says if you love Him you will obey His commands, and the bible says that even if you give all you possess to the poor, and surrender your body to flames (being a martyr for God) but have not love you gain nothing (no salvation). So what does Jesus count as love? obedience.

again, belief is not a work it is a state of mind,

you have a lot of works in here, if all of those things are required, what you have is a reward, a prize, a salary or wage for doing those works. Hence salvation would not be a gift.

that’s why paul said if it is of grace it is no longer of works otherwise grace is no longer grace. You can not mix grace and works, they cancel each other outl

[wuote]Yes, Jesus had the power and authority to forgive sins on the earth BEFORE He died, was resurrected, and established His church that He purchased with His own blood. But now we must join Him in His death by way of baptism- in His death is where He shed His blood. (Romans 6:3). We must also stay in contact with His blood by partaking of the Lord’s Supper. Jesus says “Unless you eat of the flesh of the Son of Man, and drink His blood, you have no life in you.” (no eternal life aka salvation). (John 6:53).[/QUOTE]
your trying to replace Holy Spirit baptism with water baptism. I would be careful here, as this can be deemed blasphemy of the spirit

water baptism will no more save you than circumcision did in the Old Testament, they are symbols of the spiritual cleansing or spiritual circumcision done by the hand of God by the Holy Spirit himself (see Col 2)

 

[VCO]

Not everyone receives the gift of salvation- therefore there is a requirement.

CORRECT, but there is NO REQUIREMENT to earn it. IT IS A FREE GIFT TO THOSE HE HAS CHOSEN!

John 15:16-17 (NKJV)
16 You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you.
17 These things I command you, that you love one another.

Titus 3:5-7 (HCSB)
5 He saved us— not by works of righteousness that we had done, but according to His mercy,
through the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
6 He poured out this ⌊Spirit⌋ on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
7 so that having been justified by His grace, we may become heirs with the hope of eternal life.

2 Corinthians 3:5 (HCSB)
5 ⌊It is⌋ not that we are competent in ourselves to consider anything as coming from ourselves, but our competence is from God.

Philippians 2:13 (HCSB)
13 For it is God who is working in you, ⌊enabling you⌋ both to desire and to work out His good purpose.

Philippians 1:6 (HCSB)
6 I am sure of this, that He who started a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

John 10:27-28 (HCSB)
27 My sheep hear My voice, I know them, and they follow Me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever!
No one will snatch them out of My hand.

Ephesians 2:8-9 (NJB)
8 Because it is by grace that you have been saved, through faith; not by anything of your own, but by a gift from God;
9 not by anything that you have done, so that nobody can claim the credit.

Romans 11:6 (NASB)
6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

Romans 3:28 (GWT)
28 We conclude that a person has God's approval by faith, not by his own efforts.

Romans 4:4-5 (NIV)
4 Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation.
5 However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness.

Romans 8:28-30 (HCSB)
28 We know that all things work together for the good of those who love God: those who are called according to His purpose.
29 For those He foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers.
30 And those He predestined, He also called; and those He called, He also justified; and those He justified, He also glorified.


That is what we O.S.A.S. Believers, mean by JESUS DID IT ALL! So what did HE mean by foreknew ? ? ?


2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.


Now if you want to Call those who {Agape} love God as your REQUIREMENT, we can put up with that, HOWEVER, we know the Spiritual Truth, that every bit of it came from GOD HIMSELF. THEREFORE, GOD gets all the GLORY, not us.

Romans 5:5 (HCSB)
5 This hope will not disappoint ⌊us⌋, because God’s love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.


Therefore HE GETS ALL THE CREDIT, and not us.

 

[VCO]

I am not willing to go through this list of songs, but if you have a scripture for me, I am more than willing to examine that.

IT IS ONE SONG, and you have to click on it to play it. That is the way this music channel works, it lands on the one I wanted you to play.

but HERE YOU GO. IT IS all the verses in the above Post.

 

[VCO]

Hear is the Song I wanted you to here:

 

[VCO]

I'm amazed that there are so many posts on this subject. This usually means it's made some people uncomfortable, though I don't know why.

YES, OSAS, usually makes some uncomfortable, to TOTALLY TRUST IN JESUS FOR THEIR SALVATION. Here is a short poster that I made, that explains what O.S.A.S. basically in brief is all about.

None of the Regulars are Uncomfortable.

 

[Magenta]

Romans 10:9

that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

Romans 10:9

 

[Magenta]

John 3:16

“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

Do we sometimes make salvation the gift more complicated that it is?

John 3:16

 

[Magenta]

A sinner saved by grace is saved according to scripture. Faith is how Abraham pleased God. Faith is the guiding light IMO and that faith grows from a babe in Christ to maturity along the way. Or some people may stay a babe in Christ. As for living the Way, even though we are saved we are going to slip and fall along the way. So there again, that saving grace is what covers us and keeps us God's child.

Ephesians 2:8-9

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Not everyone receives the gift of salvation- therefore there is a requirement.

Again not true

Everyone does not receive it because god will not force it on you you can reject it

 

[star]

Not everyone receives the gift of salvation- therefore there is a requirement.

The whole world has been offered the gift of salvation. Anyone who does not receive salvation is not God's fault for it is His will for all to come to salvation. To say only a select few have been offered that gift is simply not true. There is no scripture to support that statement.

 

[Magenta]

Not everyone receives the gift of salvation- therefore there is a requirement.

That is correct. The gift is offered to all but not all accept.
One has to accept the gift, or they remain lost and unsaved.

Someone will probably want to call that a work. It is not

 

[VCO]

John 3:16

I have an idea for you. Jesus was a Nazarene. Do you have any idea that JESUS was a medium skinned like the Nazarene People? Not Black or White. YET, we have seen European Artist paint him as white.

This picture should be easy with a toner, to make him look medium skinned.

=

.

.

but here are real Nazarenes.

 

[Magenta]

I have an idea for you. Jesus was a Nazarene. Do you have any idea that JESUS was a medium skinned like the Nazarene People? Not Black or White. YET, we have seen European Artist paint him as white.

This picture should be easy with a toner, to make him look medium skinned.

=

.

.

but here are real Nazarenes.

John 8:12 + John12:46

Psalm 130:1-3

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Not everyone receives the gift of salvation- therefore there is a requirement.

You mean you didn't just roll out of bed one morning, hit the floor and discover you were saved by accident?

 

[Magenta]

You mean you didn't just roll out of bed one morning, hit the floor and discover you were saved by accident?

There was a member here formerly who told us that she went to bed one night a
nonbeliever and awoke a believer. I believe she said it was basically the same for her hubs.

It certainly was not that way for me

I went through quite a protracted battle coming to accept the Truth of God's Word

 

[oyster67]

God will never leave you, forsake you, or stop you if you decide to turn and walk away.

John
6:66 From that [time] many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
6:67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?
6:68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
6:69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.
6:70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?
6:71 He spake of Judas Iscariot [the son] of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.

Apostacy happens.