Not By Works

[OIC1965]

True...we should not doubt our salvation any more than a child learning to walk should doubt the love of his father because he stumbles. Presumptuous sin, however, is a totally different ballgame, where different rules apply: if you play that game, you are guaranteed to lose...................................eternal life.

That take us back to 1 John 3 again.

Most or at least many who teach security of believers do not teach the doctrine you are fighting against.

 

[Guojing]

So when Steven was stoned, did his spirit go to heaven? Because the first verse you quoted is talking about Jesus’ ascension, right?

No, he did not.

He joined all the others from Israel who are waiting for the 2nd return of Christ, to receive their salvation (Romans 11:25-27)

 

[Guojing]

If justification was through works in the OT, they would have all perished.

They will be justified in the future, when Jesus returns for them to execute the New Covenant with the nation Israel, as Acts 3:19-21 and Hebrews 8:8-12 stated.

 

[OIC1965]

They will be justified in the future, when Jesus returns for them to execute the New Covenant with the nation Israel, as Acts 3:19-21 and Hebrews 8:8-12 stated.

How could they have a relationship/fellowship with God without being justified?

 

[OIC1965]

No, he did not.

He joined all the others from Israel who are waiting for the 2nd return of Christ, to receive their salvation (Romans 11:25-27)

But he was in the new covenant!

 

[Guojing]

How could they have a relationship/fellowship with God without being justified?

Israel was God's favored nation in the OT.

So long as they remain with the nation Israel, they can have the relationship with God. (Exodus 19:3-6)

 

[Guojing]

But he was in the new covenant!

The New covenant described in Hebrews 8:8-12 talks about the future, and is with the nation Israel, not individual Jews within the nation.

The leaders of Israel, at Stephen's preaching, could have accepted Christ as their promised Messiah but they chose to stone him instead, thereby committing the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. (Acts 7:52-57)

As a result, Israel the nation has yet to accept the new covenant, as they did for the old covenant in Exodus 24.

They will only accept it as a nation, at the 2nd coming of Christ.

 

[OIC1965]

Israel was God's favored nation in the OT.

So long as they remain with the nation Israel, they can have the relationship with God. (Exodus 19:3-6)

So King Ahab had fellowship with God?

 

[OIC1965]

The New covenant described in Hebrews 8:8-12 talks about the future, and is with the nation Israel, not individual Jews within the nation.

The leaders of Israel, at Stephen's preaching, could have accepted Christ as their promised Messiah but they chose to stone him instead, thereby committing the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. (Acts 7:52-55)

As a result, Israel the nation has yet to accept the new covenant, as they did for the old covenant in Exodus 24.

They will only accept it as a nation, at the 2nd coming of Christ.

So God’s law has not been written on believers’ hearts yet?

 

[Guojing]

So King Ahab had fellowship with God?

I don't know, did he keep the covenant of the Law that began with Israel in Exodus 24?

If he did not, then no, he would have been cut off from the nation

 

[Guojing]

So God’s law has not been written on believers’ hearts yet?

For us in the Body of Christ, we are not under the Law, not in the past, nor in the future.

 

[OIC1965]

No, he did not.

He joined all the others from Israel who are waiting for the 2nd return of Christ, to receive their salvation (Romans 11:25-27)

So are you saying our spirits will not go to heaven if we die before the resurrection?

 

[OIC1965]

I don't know, did he keep the covenant of the Law that began with Israel in Exodus 24?

If he did not, then no, he would have been cut off from the nation

Then nationality was not the basis of fellowship. Men and women had fellowship with God before Israel was a nation.

 

[OIC1965]

For us in the Body of Christ, we are not under the Law, not in the past, nor in the future.

Because the Law is written on our hearts. God changed our stony hearts.

 

[Guojing]

So are you saying our spirits will not go to heaven if we die before the resurrection?

The Body of Christ have the present salvation now (Ephesians 1:7), unlike those from Israel, so I believe we will be going to heaven when we fall asleep.

 

[OIC1965]

The Body of Christ have the present salvation now (Ephesians 1:7), unlike those from Israel, so I believe we will be going to heaven when we fall asleep.

Steven was part of the body of Christ. He died after the Day of Pentecost.

 

[Guojing]

Then nationality was not the basis of fellowship. Men and women had fellowship with God before Israel was a nation.

That is true, but ever since Exodus, as I stated in Exodus 19:6, God chose to focus on the nation Israel, and cut off all the gentiles from his fellowship, until the fall of Israel. (Ephesians 2:11-12)

 

[Guojing]

Steven was part of the body of Christ. He died after the Day of Pentecost.

The Body of Christ did not begin in Acts 2, but if you were to hold that doctrine, I can understand the appeal.

We can agree to disagree there.

 

[Guojing]

Because the Law is written on our hearts. God changed our stony hearts.

Hebrews 8:8-12, I repeat, is a promise to Israel. Don't claim promises given to the nation Israel for yourself.

Us gentiles are saved by being in the Body of Christ. (Ephesians 1:7)

 

[OIC1965]

That is true, but ever since Exodus, as I stated in Exodus 19:6, God chose to focus on the nation Israel, and cut off all the gentiles from his fellowship, until the fall of Israel. (Ephesians 2:11-12)

But they had to be justified to be righteous before God. It was not enough to be part of the nation alone.