Not By Works

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Jan 9, 2014
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Rather it was said by Paul or not there's not really new covenant.Things are said in the old testament like the just shall live by faith and of course he desires mercy and not sacrifice.Even to be nice to your enemy
Heb 9…”15 For this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that, since a death has taken place for the redemption of the violations that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.”
What is that “new covenant”?
Heb 9:16-28.
Jer 33…”31 “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers on the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord.33 “For this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord: “I will put My law within them and write it on their heart; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 They will not teach again, each one his neighbor and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the Lord, “for I will forgive their wrongdoing, and their sin I will no longer remember.”…”
 
Aug 20, 2021
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Heb 9…”15 For this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that, since a death has taken place for the redemption of the violations that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.”
What is that “new covenant”?
Heb 9:16-28.
Jer 33…”31 “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers on the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord.33 “For this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord: “I will put My law within them and write it on their heart; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 They will not teach again, each one his neighbor and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the Lord, “for I will forgive their wrongdoing, and their sin I will no longer remember.”…”
That of Jeremiah has not been done yet.Unless we are outside the gates.For it says they will not teach again because every one will know him from the lest to the greatest.He also said in Jeremiah he did not say sacrifice and offerings but that you obey him.So then i think it not a new agreement but a finishing of the old one.Despite calling it a new covenant.
Jer 7:22
For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:
 

Departure

New member
Oct 6, 2021
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That doesn't mean we should not do works though... Rather that implies the spiritual reasoning for why we do works should always be considered strongly. If we are not to do works... Than, why are crowns mentioned throughout the Bible?? Obviously we are to strive for some things while stuck in these sinful flesh suits as borne again believers through the Lord Jesus Christ of Nazareth. And again this is evident by what Paul eluded to as a servant of the Lord in Corinthians as well!

Sorry but the "no works" deception is a lie straight from the pits of Sheol itself. Kingdom of darkness would love nothing better than for servants of the Lord to sit complacently; servants of evil allowed to do as they please in the world with no "reprove" from the "Living Word".

https://www.allaboutbible.com/five-crowns-in-the-bible/
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Corinthians 3:10-15 KJV

10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.



11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.


12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;


13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.


14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.


15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

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Ephesians 5:11 KJV
And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.


Ephesians 6:12 KJV
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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Sorry but the "no works" deception is a lie straight from the pits of Sheol itself
Sorry but the reception from the pit of Sheol is that works save us.
Works do not save us.

Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Good works are evidence of saving faith.

We are not saved by good works, but for good works which are an expression of the fact we have been saved by grace.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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John 5:29: “Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
I think you mean John 6:29

John 6:29
29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

It is the work of God that we believe in Jesus and not a work that we do to believe.
 

Justified

Active member
Jul 13, 2021
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Now I’ll ask you…Where in Holy Scripture is it ever emphatically, explicitly stated “Faith alone” is completely sufficient unto salvation?
You’ll never find it.
You will be compelled to try to defend that concept, doctrine, but Scripture NEVER asserts that.
Be strong in the Lord of Hosts, and in His Mighty Word.
I notice that you duck the question and then resort to a tactic that you think avoids any response. You clearly do not understand scripture as the bible is clear that the condition of salvation is faith in Christ Jesus. But you want to add works to that so you are teaching another gospel. You must think that the crucifixion of Christ Jesus was not sufficient so now man has to help. That is so so wrong.
Not sure where you got your false theology but with more study you will come to a correct understanding. Salvation is through faith in Christ Jesus not faith plus works.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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The definitive Verse is:

2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.


Did you get that: not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, before time began.

That means his plans are as GOOD AS ALREADY DONE. Any works we do will not count for SALVATION.
What does it count for? Only for rewards, and Salvation is not a reward, AND ONLY FOR THE RIGHT MOTIVE.

That is correct, only WORKS done for your fellow man, Christian's even more, will be honored with a REWARD of a crown, IF THEY ARE DONE PURELY OUT OF GOD GIVEN LOVE FOR THEM. JESUS HIMSELF, searches the heart of the believer, for that MOTIVE.

Revelation 2:23 (ESV)
23 . . . And all the churches will know that I am he who searches mind and heart, and I will give to each of you according to your works.
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
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From the manger to Calvary Jesus followed the path of self-denial and sought not to be released from arduous tasks, painful travels and exhausting care and labour. He said, “The Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give His life a ransom for many.” Matt 20:28. This was the one great object of His life. Everything else was secondary and subservient. It was His meat and drink to do the will of God and to finish His work. Self and self-interest had no part in His labour.
So those who are the partakers of the grace of Christ will be ready to make any sacrifice, that others for whom He died may share the heavenly gift. They will do all they can to make the world better for their stay in it. This spirit is the sure outgrowth of a soul truly converted. No sooner does one come to Christ than there is born in his heart a desire to make known to others what a precious friend he has found in Jesus; the saving and sanctifying truth cannot be shut up in his heart. If we are clothed with the righteousness of Christ and are filled with the joy of His indwelling Spirit, we shall not be able to hold our peace. If we have tasted and seen that the Lord is good we shall have something to tell. Like Philip when he found the Saviour, we shall invite others into His presence. We shall seek to present to them the attractions of Christ and the unseen realities of the world to come. There will be an intensity of desire to follow in the path that Jesus trod. There will be an earnest longing that those around us may “behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.” John 1:29
God might have committed the message of the gospel, and all the work of loving ministry, to the heavenly angels. He might have employed other means for accomplishing His purpose. But in His infinite love He chose to make us co-workers with Himself, with Christ and the angels, that we might share the blessing, the joy, the spiritual uplifting, which results from this unselfish work.
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
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Why "have to do"? To me it is not a have to, but a "get to".

I am not satisfied at all with that "all we have to do is believe and accept": I want to live my belief out in real life in my actions and behavior every day. Out of gratefulness and the inspiration of God's love for me I want to be on the front line forces for the advancement of His Kingdom!

The "all we have to do" is pertaining to "salvation" and not how to live the life example of Christ. The "acceptance" part comes first and foremost. There are lots of "good" people living a good, clean life but who have not accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.
 

star

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Nov 8, 2017
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If "legalism, laws" and trying to keep them are what people believe will give eternal life, then Christ died for nothing. To mingle legalism with grace distorts grace and makes a mockery of the Cross.
 

star

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Nov 8, 2017
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Faith is believing, without seeing, God Almighty, and accepting His Son, Jesus Christ as our Savior and Lord. "Works" has nothing to do with salvation. As for works, there are people who do not know Christ yet they do good things. There are people who know Christ and have accepted Him yet they fail to do good works, all the time.

The Lord God created us for companionship, to praise Him and glorify Him. Jesus was our ultimate sacrifice to the salvation of fallen creation. We are to be the eyes, hands and feet for Christ since He physically left this earth. I personally do not live to see "how many rewards" I will receive in heaven. I just want to fulfill the plan the Lord has for me. I then will be the complete creation I was born to be. However, I fall short on a daily basis.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,291
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That doesn't mean we should not do works though... Rather that implies the spiritual reasoning for why we do works should always be considered strongly. If we are not to do works... Than, why are crowns mentioned throughout the Bible?? Obviously we are to strive for some things while stuck in these sinful flesh suits as borne again believers through the Lord Jesus Christ of Nazareth. And again this is evident by what Paul eluded to as a servant of the Lord in Corinthians as well!

Sorry but the "no works" deception is a lie straight from the pits of Sheol itself. Kingdom of darkness would love nothing better than for servants of the Lord to sit complacently; servants of evil allowed to do as they please in the world with no "reprove" from the "Living Word".

https://www.allaboutbible.com/five-crowns-in-the-bible/
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Corinthians 3:10-15 KJV

10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.



11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.


12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;


13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.


14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.


15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

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Ephesians 5:11 KJV
And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.


Ephesians 6:12 KJV
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Not at all, no works deception. Salvation was ACCOMPLISHED IN FULL, by our ALL KNOWING GOD, BEFORE TIME BEGAN.
Never has SALVATION been because of the good works you have done; it is only the evidence that you have been Saved, BEFORE TIME BEGAN. BESIDES THAT, SALVATION IS A FREE GIFT, NOT SOMETHING YOU CAN EARN. DON'T YOU KNOW, that SALVATION has Never been part of the the Heavenly Reward, which has always been CROWNS.

2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.



Psalm 103:2-4 (ESV)
2 Bless the LORD, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits,
3 who forgives all your iniquity, who heals all your diseases,
4 who redeems your life from the pit, who crowns you with steadfast love and mercy,

1 Corinthians 9:25 (ASV)
25 And every man that striveth in the games exerciseth self-control in all things. Now they do it to receive a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.


Philippians 4:1 (NASB)

1 Therefore, my beloved brethren whom I long to see, my joy and crown, in this way stand firm in the Lord, my beloved.

1 Thessalonians 2:19 (YLT)
19 for what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? are not even ye before our Lord Jesus Christ in his presence?

2 Timothy 4:8 (ESV)
8 Henceforth there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will award to me on that Day, and not only to me but also to all who have loved his appearing.

James 1:12 (NASB)
12 Blessed is a man who perseveres under trial; for once he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him.

1 Peter 5:4 (ASV)
4 And when the chief Shepherd shall be manifested, ye shall receive the crown of glory that fadeth not away.
 

CherieR

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
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Not at all, no works deception. Salvation was ACCOMPLISHED IN FULL, by our ALL KNOWING GOD, BEFORE TIME BEGAN.
Never has SALVATION been because of the good works you have done; it is only the evidence that you have been Saved, BEFORE TIME BEGAN. BESIDES THAT, SALVATION IS A FREE GIFT, NOT SOMETHING YOU CAN EARN. DON'T YOU KNOW, that SALVATION has Never been part of the the Heavenly Reward, which has always been CROWNS.

2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.



Psalm 103:2-4 (ESV)
2 Bless the LORD, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits,
3 who forgives all your iniquity, who heals all your diseases,
4 who redeems your life from the pit, who crowns you with steadfast love and mercy,

1 Corinthians 9:25 (ASV)
25 And every man that striveth in the games exerciseth self-control in all things. Now they do it to receive a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.


Philippians 4:1 (NASB)

1 Therefore, my beloved brethren whom I long to see, my joy and crown, in this way stand firm in the Lord, my beloved.

1 Thessalonians 2:19 (YLT)
19 for what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? are not even ye before our Lord Jesus Christ in his presence?

2 Timothy 4:8 (ESV)
8 Henceforth there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will award to me on that Day, and not only to me but also to all who have loved his appearing.

James 1:12 (NASB)
12 Blessed is a man who perseveres under trial; for once he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him.

1 Peter 5:4 (ASV)
4 And when the chief Shepherd shall be manifested, ye shall receive the crown of glory that fadeth not away.
Which good works are evidence and how is it evidence? If one looks for evidence of their salvation through their good works, couldn’t this self analysis be subjective and possibly distorted?

Proverbs 21:2 ( KJV) states that “ Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts.”
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
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I don't approach Christian living or salvation from a "need to" angle: I want to and love to serve my Redeemer.
You are entitled to approach Christian living anyway you like but there is a "need to" for salvation and the bible plainly tells us how and why (the need to) which is not an angle IMHO
 

star

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Nov 8, 2017
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You do not seem to understand what Chester is saying here. What I see in his comment is that he does not want to just be a sit back and do nothing Christian, he wants to be engaged. This is just as we all should be.
I think you are looking for hidden meaning in his words and there is none.
I looked at Chester's words and saw what he said. The "salvation" part was the main point in my original post. Chester speaks of not liking the "all we need to" which as far as salvation goes, faith in Jesus Christ is the "all we need for accepting Jesus whom as given the "grace" for us to be saved. Faith is what we have to express and have in our hearts before the "gift" of salvation can be given. As for Christian living, that should follow the salvation part with our hearts full of thankfulness for that gift.
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
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Becoming saved through the gift provided by God Almighty who gave His only begotten Son in order the save the souls of His Creation is not complicated nor are there certain laws, formulas, procedures, etc to follow. The Lord made it simple but He will inspect the heart of anyone who comes to Him to make sure that heart is sincere and full of faith as to whom Jesus Christ is.

Man loves to complicate what the Almighty has made simple.
 

CherieR

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
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Becoming saved through the gift provided by God Almighty who gave His only begotten Son in order the save the souls of His Creation is not complicated nor are there certain laws, formulas, procedures, etc to follow. The Lord made it simple but He will inspect the heart of anyone who comes to Him to make sure that heart is sincere and full of faith as to whom Jesus Christ is.

Man loves to complicate what the Almighty has made simple.
How does the Lord do this inspection of the heart star? To be honest, I have often experienced self questioning about my own faith. I feel like I have over analyzed the genuineness of my faith and at times I would feel assured but self doubt would return. I heard that the solution is to look to Christ .
 
Feb 22, 2021
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The Lord made it simple but He will inspect the heart of anyone who comes to Him to make sure that heart is sincere and full of faith as to whom Jesus Christ is.
Precious friend, you are about an Eternity Too LATE! We,
The Entire Body Of CHRIST, According To our OMNISCIENT God:

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Who hath
blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
According as He Hath Chosen us In Him Before the foundation of the
world
, that we should be holy and without blame before Him In Love:

Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ
to Himself, according to The Good Pleasure of His Will, To The Praise
of The Glory Of HIS GRACE
, Wherein He Hath Made us Accepted In
The Beloved
." (Ephesians_1:3-6)

ALL Praise And Thanks Be Unto HIM! Amen?

(2 Timothy 2:15; Romans 16:25; Ephesians 1:3-9; Ephesians 3:9 =
Grace/Mystery
fellowship {Romans – Philemon}, For ALL “to SEE,” today?)

Please Be Richly Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, and Edified!
God’s Simple Will!
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,277
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How does the Lord do this inspection of the heart star? To be honest, I have often experienced self questioning about my own faith. I feel like I have over analyzed the genuineness of my faith and at times I would feel assured but self doubt would return. I heard that the solution is to look to Christ .
One would have to ask the question
"Why are you/we questioning our faith and at times feel assured but then self doubt returns"

What assures us?
Where and why does the self doubt return?
What is this self doubt?

Is it doubt in ourselves and acceptance? Or is it

Doubting that Jesus actually he was/is when infact he was not.
He did not rise again from the dead and was just a mere man who died and was buried and still is.
 

CherieR

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
2,134
1,342
113
One would have to ask the question
"Why are you/we questioning our faith and at times feel assured but then self doubt returns"

What assures us?
Where and why does the self doubt return?
What is this self doubt?

Is it doubt in ourselves and acceptance? Or is it

Doubting that Jesus actually he was/is when infact he was not.
He did not rise again from the dead and was just a mere man who died and was buried and still is.
I’ve been diagnosed with OCD so chances are that is contributing quite a bit.