Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
33,594
11,532
113
lest you continue to be deceived by Satan and think you have any of this remotely close:

Μὴ οὖν τις ὑμᾶς κρινέτω ἐν βρώσει ἢ ἐν πόσει ἢ ἐν μέρει ἑορτῆς ἢ νουμηνίας ἢ σαββάτων·
(Colossians 2:16)
0?τῆς is literally in English ((not the language of scripture)) "festivals" or "feast days" -- any sabbath having to specifically do with a feast day is very obviously and very clearly implicit within this word.
then comes "
νουμηνίας" -- new moon festivals. God puts this inbetween ἑορτῆς and σαββάτων - the Living God Himself separates 'feast days' from "sabbath" because all scripture is God breathed. a marked division authored by Christ Himself.


therefore
your assertion that σαββάτων only refers to ἑορτῆς is not onyl absolutely heretical, unsupportable, indefensible and utterly false -- it is absolutely laughable -- you have zero case whatsoever for your 100% transparently, desperately idiotic to the point that absolutely no one who has even the slightest training in the scripture, and WOW no one with the Holy Spirit in any amount at all, would ever by your blasphemous & obviously false personal misinterpretation of Colossians 2:16.

we are on to you, tele-dude.
you're full of malarky.
full to the point in spills out embarrassingly in everything you write.
you are embarassing all of Christendom as long as you claim to be part of it.
when one part of our body is put to shame, we are all ashamed.
look at this thread: we are ashamed of you.


you're desperate for Galatians not to exist, and you preach quite possibly the most insanely ridiculous private misinterpretation of Colossians 2 i have ever heard in my whole life.

my dude, please self-reflect.
salvation is by grace, not works, and that not of yourself.

don't think for a second i refrain from answering any of your inane posts because i am either afraid or unable -- i simply struggle with considering you worth my time; you're so far gone.
I was rude and personal and I am sorry about that.
But I wasn't untruthful

You keep hearing the same perverse arguments over and over from people who have been constantly corrected by multiple people for years and it just gets very frustrating.

I will keep trying to be patient and to avoid bitterness
I appreciate your prayers for me ❤️
 
Aug 3, 2019
3,744
506
113
Finish the quotation.

"so that they may be broken, and fall backward, and be snared"



God spoke all of the law.
If you accept circumcision you make yourself a debtor to the whole law, and make Christ of no effect.
And, finishing it somehow changes the point I made? The portion I posted is more than enough to advise the Bible reader in how to avoid seduction by false doctrines such as OSAS.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
33,594
11,532
113
And, finishing it somehow changes the point I made? The portion I posted is more than enough to advise the Bible reader in how to avoid seduction by false doctrines such as OSAS.
The purpose of the law is to illuminate and condemn sin, not to make anyone righteous.

Precept upon precept so that you will fall backward and be snared. Because you are not weened.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
9,985
5,395
113
I was rude and personal and I am sorry about that.
But I wasn't untruthful

You keep hearing the same perverse arguments over and over from people who have been constantly corrected by multiple people for years and it just gets very frustrating.

I will keep trying to be patient and to avoid bitterness
I appreciate your prayers for me ❤️

that is why i limit my time in the b d f.

having the same argument with the same people on a daily basis ( as you said, when they have been proven wrong time and time again) will get one into a bad attitude.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
33,594
11,532
113
And, finishing it somehow changes the point I made? The portion I posted is more than enough to advise the Bible reader in how to avoid seduction by false doctrines such as OSAS.
The faithfulness of God is orthopraxy.
Failing to trust Him is false doctrine.
 
Aug 3, 2019
3,744
506
113
Are you saying kjv is incorrect?
The three reasons why your claim that "sabbaths" in Colossians 2 refers to the Weekly Sabbath is wrong:

1. Paul listed what are clearly ceremonial things which were nailed to the Cross, and it's bad hermeneutics to deny "sabbaths" refers to the ceremonial yearly "sabbath" Feast Days, and insist that refers to the non-ceremonial weekly Sabbath.

2. The law Paul said was nailed to the Cross was "against us" - which Moses identifies as the Mosaic Law of ceremonies and sacrifices which he wrote and had placed "on the side" of the Ark, while the Ten Commandments God wrote which are "for" us because then contain blessings and promises, was placed separately inside the Ark.

3. The Weekly Sabbath was not a "shadow" of the future work of the Redeemer Christ, it is a memorial to Creator God Jesus Christ which points back to Creation Week, and we who rest in Christ do so as a sign to all that we worship the Creator of Creation Week - not as a "shadow" of something He will do in the future, but of what He's already done in the past.
 
Aug 3, 2019
3,744
506
113
lest you continue to be deceived by Satan and think you have any of this remotely close:
Those who do and teach Jesus' law are called "great" while those who break and teach others the same are called "the least" (but "great" in Satan's kingdom).
-- any sabbath having to specifically do with a feast day is very obviously and very clearly implicit within this word.
Which is why the weekly Sabbath is not the subject of Colossians 2 - it's got nothing to do with "feasts".
then comes "νουμηνίας" -- new moon festivals. God puts this inbetween ἑορτῆς and σαββάτων - the Living God Himself separates 'feast days' from "sabbath" because all scripture is God breathed. a marked division authored by Christ Himself.
The KJV has it right: the "holy days" refer to Purim, Jubilee celebrations, etc., followed by the "sabbaths" which refer to the Feast Day yearly "sabbaths".
your assertion that σαββάτων only refers to ἑορτῆς is not onyl absolutely heretical, unsupportable, indefensible and utterly false -- it is absolutely laughable -- you have zero case whatsoever for your 100% transparently, desperately idiotic to the point that absolutely no one who has even the slightest training in the scripture, and WOW no one with the Holy Spirit in any amount at all, would ever by your blasphemous & obviously false personal misinterpretation of Colossians 2:16.
(1) Your assertion that Paul's list of clearly ceremonial things must exchange the ceremonial yearly "sabbaths" for the non-ceremonial weekly Sabbath, (2) your refusal to allow Moses to identify as "against us" the Mosaic ceremonial law placed outside the Ark as the one Paul said was "against us" and nailed to the Cross, while insisting what was "against us" was the law God wrote Himself with promises and blessings and was placed inside the Ark, and (3) making a list which clearly says are "shadows of things to come" in the future include a memorial to that which happened long ago in the past, all serve to expose your poor exegesis and hermeneutic skills, as well as expose you as an enemy of Christ, preferring the rebellious nature of Christ's and Christianity's arch enemy.
we are on to you, tele-dude. you're full of malarky.full to the point in spills out embarrassingly in everything you write.
I preach malarky? Admit it, you had no problem believing and preaching the "many" in Matthew 24:12 were lost, until I showed up and backed you into a corner, forcing you in desperation to:
  • first insist the "many" were agape-filled WICKED
  • then later admit they're heaven-bound SAINTS - thus denying the contrast of verses 12-13
  • and now most recently arguing Jesus is talking about 7 year tribulation JEWS
When confronted with malarky, an intelligent man doesn't need to change his story three or more times to refute it, which means either I'm preaching the truth or you're not too bright...which is it?
u are embarassing all of Christendom as long as you claim to be part of it. when one part of our body is put to shame, we are all ashamed. look at this thread: we are ashamed of you.
And all heaven isn't ashamed of you, calling you "the least" for breaking God's commandments and teaching others to do the same? Repent and avoid the rush at doomsday.
you're desperate for Galatians not to exist, and you preach quite possibly the most insanely ridiculous private misinterpretation of Colossians 2 i have ever heard in my whole life. my dude, please self-reflect.
Saying obedience is the evidence that Jesus is enthroned on the heart doesn't deny Galatians in the least: it is YOU who turn the grace of Galatians into a OSAS License to Sin, and Jude well wrote about you who would do that. Maybe if you didn't sit around in your OSAS echo chamber, you'd have heard the truth before I showed up to preach it to you.
salvation is by grace, not works, and that not of yourself.
To us who walk the Path of the Just, you who are stuck in the Left Ditch of License and shout across to those stuck in the Right Ditch of Legalism have no idea how ridiculous you look. Take hold of Jesus' uplifting hand.
don't think for a second i refrain from answering any of your inane posts because i am either afraid or unable -- i simply struggle with considering you worth my time; you're so far gone.
Nah, you're struggle is finally running up against someone whose equipped with sound Biblical doctrine and ain't afraid to expose error with it.
 
Aug 3, 2019
3,744
506
113
Already answered

No one said they were saved, we are witnessing it today. As already said.
So, you admit these "many" whose agape turns cold will be lost....GOOD.

Now admit they can't be the wicked because "agape" is demonstrated by happily keeping God's commandments (1 John 5:3 KJV) but the wicked can't keep them even if they wanted to (Romans 8:7 KJV).
 
Aug 3, 2019
3,744
506
113
The 10 commandments are the Mosaic Law. They were given under Moses. => Mosaic Law

There were no 10 commandments from the beginning\
Oh, "thou shalt not kill" didn't begin until Moses? I missed the part when Cain said, "Sorry Lord, didn't know it was wrong to kill my bro." He knew murder was wrong just as Abraham knew it was wrong to lie, Rachel knew it was wrong to steal, Joseph knew adultery was wrong, etc. Didn't Abraham "keep all My commandments, My statutes, and My laws" long before Moses?

The Ten Commandments go back to the beginning - they were simply CODIFIED at Sinai. Please stop with these popular but absolutely ridiculous lines of reasoning.
 
Aug 3, 2019
3,744
506
113
The purpose of the law is to illuminate and condemn sin, not to make anyone righteous.
LOL Saying obedience is the outward evidence of inward conversion, while disobedience is the outward evidence of the inward child of the devil (1 John 2:3-4 KJV) is not preaching salvation by works.
 
Aug 3, 2019
3,744
506
113
The faithfulness of God is orthopraxy.
Failing to trust Him is false doctrine.
Yes, that's why when a criminal says, "I didn't do it", the judge immediately sets him free...because evidence ain't important.

Again, good works are the evidence of Jesus on the heart, while a lack of good works is evidence Jesus is elsewhere.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
33,594
11,532
113
The three reasons why your claim that "sabbaths" in Colossians 2 refers to the Weekly Sabbath is wrong:

1. Paul listed what are clearly ceremonial things which were nailed to the Cross, and it's bad hermeneutics to deny "sabbaths" refers to the ceremonial yearly "sabbath" Feast Days, and insist that refers to the non-ceremonial weekly Sabbath.

2. The law Paul said was nailed to the Cross was "against us" - which Moses identifies as the Mosaic Law of ceremonies and sacrifices which he wrote and had placed "on the side" of the Ark, while the Ten Commandments God wrote which are "for" us because then contain blessings and promises, was placed separately inside the Ark.

3. The Weekly Sabbath was not a "shadow" of the future work of the Redeemer Christ, it is a memorial to Creator God Jesus Christ which points back to Creation Week, and we who rest in Christ do so as a sign to all that we worship the Creator of Creation Week - not as a "shadow" of something He will do in the future, but of what He's already done in the past.

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath:
which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
(Colossians 2:16 KJV)
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,308
3,057
113
Oh, "thou shalt not kill" didn't begin until Moses? I missed the part when Cain said, "Sorry Lord, didn't know it was wrong to kill my bro." He knew murder was wrong just as Abraham knew it was wrong to lie, Rachel knew it was wrong to steal, Joseph knew adultery was wrong, etc. Didn't Abraham "keep all My commandments, My statutes, and My laws" long before Moses?

The Ten Commandments go back to the beginning - they were simply CODIFIED at Sinai. Please stop with these popular but absolutely ridiculous lines of reasoning.
The 10 commandments didn't exist until Moses. =>Mosaic Law.

God OBVIOUSLY has Commandments, Statutes, and Laws that are completely SEPERATE from the 10 Commandments.

Since Abraham followed them before the 10 commandments were given.


Therefore, Gods Law does not equal 10 Commandments. No matter how much you wish it were true.

Just like the 10 commandments don't go back to the beginning, even though you WISH they did.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,308
3,057
113
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath:
which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
(Colossians 2:16 KJV)
Wouldn't "holyday" and "sabbath" cover all the different sabbath days???

How is doing something as a "memorial" not "ceremonial" as well???


Although there is no such thing as "ceremonial" in the law. Ceremonial implies "un-needed" and allows people who hold to that docrine to cherry pick what Laws they should follow and what they don't.

Proverbs 21:2 Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the Lord pondereth the hearts.
 
Aug 3, 2019
3,744
506
113
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath:
which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
(Colossians 2:16 KJV)
I've shown you irrefutable evidence for why those "sabbaths" are yearly, not weekly, so either repent of your rebellion against God or keep beating that drum all the way to your 1,000 year nap.​
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
10,081
5,241
113
The Ten Commandments ain't "the Mosaic Law" which was nailed to the Cross and to which none are obligated.

The Ten Commandments are the "Moral Law" aka "Law of God" which have existed from the beginning and shall "stand fast forever and ever" because while it's OK to ignore Passover, it's NOT OK to ignore "Thou shalt have no other gods before Me."

See the difference between the Moral Law and the Mosaic Law? The one began at Sinai and ended at the Cross; the other existed since the beginning and will "stand fast forever and ever".
No son of Adam has ever kept the 10 Commandments perfectly, regardless of your opinion of its origin. That's why the second Adam came. For both Jew (Rom 11:32) and Gentile (Gal 3:22) are to be the recipients of God's merciful gift of His completed work.

God is not impressed by anything that you, I or anyone else can "do".

BTY.......you might want to review Galatians chapter 3. Who in the right mind wants to be culpable to Galatians 3:10?