Not By Works

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Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
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I think all of us should be OK with answering "I don't know". Or at least qualify our remarks with saying we are speculating.

Speculation is necessary here with your question because Scripture is silent on his spiritual status. He knew the Lord BEFORE he sinned, in his perfectly made body and being.

He is going to be cast into the LOF. ALL of him. So I don't know if he became spiritually dead after his rebellion. Seems likely to me though.

WE, are descended from Adam. Adam also knew the Lord in ways we can only imagine. Physically walking with Him, in an untainted body and Spirit. Adam had a choice. He had the power to say no to ALL sin. Every Time. We do not in the sense that we are his descendants AFTER he fell.

Genesis 5:3
New King James Version

3 And Adam lived one hundred and thirty years, and begot a son in his own likeness, after his image, and named him Seth.


Seth, like every human being born after Adam's fall, was spiritually dead. That is why Jesus had to be sent. To offer us all New Spiritual Life.
Why should God give Adam and Eve such a choice?
But, with us?
Force us into regeneration without us having some say in the results?

Calvinism's TULIP is a concept looking for a street fight with believers.
 
Nov 24, 2012
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I am speaking of their present state.

Its now called the "Dark Ages" because of what became of the Catholic church.
ok, that was confusing because they may 'now' think in 'Calvinistic' terms, but back in the times of the Council of Trent and the Reformation, it was anything but
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
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Spiritual death is finding oneself born without a human spirit.
Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit,
he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that
which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:5-6​

The be born the first time?
Your mother had to break water. (born of water = physical birth)

To be born the second time?
The Holy Spirit begets your human spirit.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that
which is born of the Spirit is spirit.


The spiritually dead is someone yet lacking a human spirit. No regeneration yet.

We need a human spirit to be made alive to God by means of his Holy Spirit.

The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God." Romans 8:16​
Until we are born again we are spiritually dead.
Even as one is not given a human body to be born of the flesh, neither are we given a human spirit to be born of the spirit.
Before anyone is born of the flesh, they already have a physical body. And in like manner, every person or human who is born of the Spirit, already has a human spirit.
The very reason you were born with a human body and not that of a chimpanzee, is because you were not only born with a human soul, but a human spirit, and a human heart.
Even as God is, three in one, so are we made in the image of God and after his likeness, three in one.
The soul of God is the Father, the heart of God is Jesus, and the Spirit of God is the Holy Ghost / Spirit.
AS GOD IS, SO ARE WE!!!
God does not give us a human spirit when we are born again, just like he did not give us a human body to be born of the flesh.
We already had a flesh body before we were born just like animals, birds, reptiles, fish, and everything else born into this world.
And the only reason why we had to be born again spiritually is because we were already born righteous spiritually once. Hence, the words, born "AGAIN"!!!
YOU CANNOT BE BORN AGAIN WITHOUT FIRST HAVING BEEN BORN ONCE BEFORE.
Romans 7:9 says, "for I was ALIVE without the law ONCE,(that would be, spiritually alive, when Paul was a child) but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I DIED. (SPIRITUALLY)"
So the child of God is born again not because he has received a human spirit from God, but because God gave of himself by putting His Spirit in US through his word. We are born again BY the word of God itself. If we do not retain or keep the word of God in our heart, we do not keep God in us, thereby causing us to lose our salvation. 1st John 2:14 and 1 Peter 1:23.
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
1,369
207
63
Even as one is not given a human body to be born of the flesh, neither are we given a human spirit to be born of the spirit.
Before anyone is born of the flesh, they already have a physical body. .
You said?
Before anyone is born of the flesh, they already have a physical body???
It says.... begotten. Not born. Begotten is the process of conception.

Before God imputes a soul to a body that body has no life.
Before God imparts and imputes a human spirit, that soul had no spiritual life.




Pass the Dramamine, please.
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
3,073
167
63
You said?
Before anyone is born of the flesh, they already have a physical body???
It says.... begotten. Not born. Begotten is the process of conception.


Before God imputes a soul to a body that body has no life.
Before God imparts and imputes a human spirit, that soul had no spiritual life.




Pass the Dramamine, please.
Where in scripture does it say, we have no human spirit until we are born again or begotten?
I gave scripture to back up part of what I said, but you have given none. Every word needs to be established by two or three witnesses. Where are your two witnesses in Scripture?
And in John 3:3 Jesus uses the words, born again.
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
1,369
207
63
Where in scripture does it say, we have no human spirit until we are born again or begotten?

Here are two translations of 1 Corinthians 2:14...
They were rendered in an interpretive way, rather than give a literal translation.

The person without the spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God
but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned
only through the Spirit.
But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him;
and he cannot know [them] because they are spiritually discerned.


And here is some notes taken from a Greek lesson as rendered by my pastor...

Note.... the Greek term, "psuchikos man" meaning "soul-ish man."​
Meaning having only soul and body. No human spirit.​



14a~~Howbeit [de]
the "psuchikos man"/"soul-ish man"
[psuchikos - the breath/"immaterial substance" that men
have in common with animals - an unbeliever with only a soul]
absolutely does not "receive to himself"/accept
[dechomai - Present middle indicative]
the things of the Spirit of God [ho pneuma Theos].
14b~~For [gar] they are foolishness to him. [moria autos]

14c~~And [kai] he absolutely is not [ouk] able/"has received the power himself"
[dunamai - middle passive indicative]
to obtain knowledge [ginosko - aorist active infinitive]
[of spiritual matters - "Divine Viewpoint type wisdom"] . . .
because [hoti] they are discerned/determined/examined/judged [anakrino]
from the source of the spirit [pneumatikos].
{Perceptive ability of the spirit filled person}
1 Corinthians 2:14​

You can get this lesson on audio if you wish. Probably about an hour long lesson.