Not By Works
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maybe to see Faith deeper, is having an object of Faith. Jesus the risen one, after he went to that cross that took away sin in his Father's sight, not this world's sight, since sin is still out in this world we are in, and not of any longer as was Eph 2
The transformation from first birth of flesh to second birth in God's Spirit and Truth. Learning this truth from first day anyone decides to believe God between them and God, by Son's done work, then resurrected life for us to abide in. by
F-orever
A-ble
I-n
T-he
H-eavens
F-orwarding
A-ll
I-ssues
T-o
H-eaven
The transformation from first birth of flesh to second birth in God's Spirit and Truth. Learning this truth from first day anyone decides to believe God between them and God, by Son's done work, then resurrected life for us to abide in. by
F-orever
A-ble
I-n
T-he
H-eavens
F-orwarding
A-ll
I-ssues
T-o
H-eaven
how those who don't believe God keeps His people and actually grants them eternal life read through romans 8:
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation(maybe), or distress(perhaps), or persecution(surely), or famine(probably), or nakedness(it could), or peril(probably), or sword(perhaps)?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (swerve: im the only creature who can do it. i will just choose to thwart God's eternal decree and plan, should be easy enough to do right?)
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation(maybe), or distress(perhaps), or persecution(surely), or famine(probably), or nakedness(it could), or peril(probably), or sword(perhaps)?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (swerve: im the only creature who can do it. i will just choose to thwart God's eternal decree and plan, should be easy enough to do right?)
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A really common objection to once saved always saved, is people saying 'well that means I can do whatever I want' or 'you are preaching a license to sin'
This is thinking carnally. It's not thinking about the depth of grace given thru the free gift of eternal life. It's thinking about yourself and not Jesus's perfect, all sufficient sacrifice.
A believer, saved by grace, who gets caught in sin WILL have consequences for that sin.
Possible things that can happen:
Dis-fellowship from church members
Getting booted from your church
Continually rebuke and conviction from God
Being taken 'home' by God, to stop your sin affecting others
Loss of rewards in heaven. Faithful believers receive extra rewards.
So, I just want to debunk the nonsense of making once saved always saved into a life with no consequences for sin.
This is thinking carnally. It's not thinking about the depth of grace given thru the free gift of eternal life. It's thinking about yourself and not Jesus's perfect, all sufficient sacrifice.
A believer, saved by grace, who gets caught in sin WILL have consequences for that sin.
Possible things that can happen:
Dis-fellowship from church members
Getting booted from your church
Continually rebuke and conviction from God
Being taken 'home' by God, to stop your sin affecting others
Loss of rewards in heaven. Faithful believers receive extra rewards.
So, I just want to debunk the nonsense of making once saved always saved into a life with no consequences for sin.
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Thanks appreciated, yet see, hear, what you said, please? that is sad, if you are not blatantly doing bad. How many of us the people have kicked out others, because they do not see as we do? I thought this love and mercy given is for all, to all and to be in us and move through us too, as does God from day one in the fall of Adam. God has had mercy from day one, even though death is to all flesh and blood, time to be alive in God's Spirit and Truth to see new in. love of God in God's spirit and Truth. John 4:23-24
Dis-fellowship from church members (by their authority to their belief you bad, with no concrete proof) thinking they are doing God a service, really?
Getting booted from your church
Come out of her my people, stop touching those unclean and getting unclean yourselves in your own thoughts too
Remember Gal 6 tells us this truth. Be aware as in Matthew 10:16-20, remember Luke 21:14-15 daily it is not you that does or did the work for you.
Trust
Totally
Redeemed
Under
Son
Today
Humbly so, not arrogantly or as if better than others, remember Luke 18:9-14
God did it, I accept, learning to daily remember this truth, I am never out of Church, The true Church God built not man how about anyone else reading this?
Hebrews 3:4
For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God.
Hebrews 12:15
looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;
Do we as people not do that verse above or have done that verse above, I have and am learning new in that truth from God over any Church building here on earth, thank you
Love all, in God's type of love, ( 1 Cor 13:4-7) that God gives us to do, imputes this in us to see and do willingly too, and see Ecclesiastes too, a time for everything, A time to do and a time to not do, Thank you to God above it all in risen Son for us to be new as born again by God not anyone else or even self. Phil 3
Do, we the people not see evil masquerades as an Angel to get us tripped up in sin goes to Church, that begins with putting anyone under Law to do, to see they can't do it. many give up and see they are not like the deacon or the pastor or even their wife or sister or brother, up there and want to quit and leave, not being good enough, never glorying in their own need for God to lead, when being told they better get or be good enough from sermons or else not going to Heaven with God. Those worried keep themselves out of the truth by worry, and Evil knows this truth
Thank you as God leads and another sees,
Dis-fellowship from church members (by their authority to their belief you bad, with no concrete proof) thinking they are doing God a service, really?
Getting booted from your church
Come out of her my people, stop touching those unclean and getting unclean yourselves in your own thoughts too
Remember Gal 6 tells us this truth. Be aware as in Matthew 10:16-20, remember Luke 21:14-15 daily it is not you that does or did the work for you.
Trust
Totally
Redeemed
Under
Son
Today
Humbly so, not arrogantly or as if better than others, remember Luke 18:9-14
God did it, I accept, learning to daily remember this truth, I am never out of Church, The true Church God built not man how about anyone else reading this?
Hebrews 3:4
For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God.
Hebrews 12:15
looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;
Do we as people not do that verse above or have done that verse above, I have and am learning new in that truth from God over any Church building here on earth, thank you
Love all, in God's type of love, ( 1 Cor 13:4-7) that God gives us to do, imputes this in us to see and do willingly too, and see Ecclesiastes too, a time for everything, A time to do and a time to not do, Thank you to God above it all in risen Son for us to be new as born again by God not anyone else or even self. Phil 3
Do, we the people not see evil masquerades as an Angel to get us tripped up in sin goes to Church, that begins with putting anyone under Law to do, to see they can't do it. many give up and see they are not like the deacon or the pastor or even their wife or sister or brother, up there and want to quit and leave, not being good enough, never glorying in their own need for God to lead, when being told they better get or be good enough from sermons or else not going to Heaven with God. Those worried keep themselves out of the truth by worry, and Evil knows this truth
Thank you as God leads and another sees,
I'm not saying don't be graceful. I'm saying God won't leave a believer thru His grace. So He will always forgive. But with this indwelling He will also deal with our sin. He won't let it slide.
He won't leave, but will correct as a Father does His children.
So yeah...I don't mean getting kicked from your church for something minor. Or God taking your life for something minor . Or dis-fellowship for something minor.
Forbearance and forgiveness would come first before these kind of consequences.
He won't leave, but will correct as a Father does His children.
So yeah...I don't mean getting kicked from your church for something minor. Or God taking your life for something minor . Or dis-fellowship for something minor.
Forbearance and forgiveness would come first before these kind of consequences.
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‘not as a human father. On not letting it slide, God does not have to, we the people do it to ourselves.
let’s us have a reprobate mindset. We end up seeing it for ourselves, that what we do or have done, even might do again, is not good for us. Then we change our mindsets, (Romans 12:2) to begin new in seeing from God Father’s vantage point through Son to us, where we enabled to learn truth from good personally, not self or any other person. We can share I care one to the other.
God allowed for me to be a drunk for years. Until I saw it was not good for me and agreed with God. Chose God to show me how by Faith to let go of it. Dry for forty years now. God gets the credit, not me, God did it for me, through me. Makes it real, so deeply, how can one refuse. I do no not nor am worried over it either, anymore Why?
” will worry ever add even a single moment to anyone’s life, here and now”?
God allows us all to see for ourselves, it is our first born person, that thinks it knows< and as I have found out, I know nothing. That is my walk here on earth, taking a long walk off a short pier. In the new, risen life, I am learning< learned to take a short walk off a long pier, in thanksgiving and praise to God Father of risen Son, Jesus, seeing the two as Won (One) for us the original creation
let’s us have a reprobate mindset. We end up seeing it for ourselves, that what we do or have done, even might do again, is not good for us. Then we change our mindsets, (Romans 12:2) to begin new in seeing from God Father’s vantage point through Son to us, where we enabled to learn truth from good personally, not self or any other person. We can share I care one to the other.
God allowed for me to be a drunk for years. Until I saw it was not good for me and agreed with God. Chose God to show me how by Faith to let go of it. Dry for forty years now. God gets the credit, not me, God did it for me, through me. Makes it real, so deeply, how can one refuse. I do no not nor am worried over it either, anymore Why?
” will worry ever add even a single moment to anyone’s life, here and now”?
God allows us all to see for ourselves, it is our first born person, that thinks it knows< and as I have found out, I know nothing. That is my walk here on earth, taking a long walk off a short pier. In the new, risen life, I am learning< learned to take a short walk off a long pier, in thanksgiving and praise to God Father of risen Son, Jesus, seeing the two as Won (One) for us the original creation
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It has always interested me on why works is so controversial. There are two things that I would like to chip in on this topic. Take it for what you will.
1) the verse at hand is incomplete in that ot cuts off the full thought. You need to read the verse after it fir it's context.
KJV. Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Now it says we are to walk in good works, and we are ordained to perform them.
2) we are commanded to do works though thwy do not save us, they are the outward testament that we are saved. And that is explained in James chapter 1 and 2
KJV James 1:22, 25,
But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.
But whoso looked into the perfect law of liberty, and continue therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deeds.
KJV James 2:14-18
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? Can faith save him? If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, and one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
So if we are to have faith in Christ, we should follow him and his example. And Christ said in John 14:15
KJV If ye love me, keep my commandments.
By being Christlike, by following his commandments, by loving our neighbors as ourselves we are performing the works of our faith. And it is through grace that we are saved in our faith. So works are important and we have been commanded to perform them. Not that they may be saved, but that we may help save our brothers and sisters by being examples of Christ who has the power to save.
1) the verse at hand is incomplete in that ot cuts off the full thought. You need to read the verse after it fir it's context.
KJV. Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Now it says we are to walk in good works, and we are ordained to perform them.
2) we are commanded to do works though thwy do not save us, they are the outward testament that we are saved. And that is explained in James chapter 1 and 2
KJV James 1:22, 25,
But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.
But whoso looked into the perfect law of liberty, and continue therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deeds.
KJV James 2:14-18
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? Can faith save him? If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, and one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
So if we are to have faith in Christ, we should follow him and his example. And Christ said in John 14:15
KJV If ye love me, keep my commandments.
By being Christlike, by following his commandments, by loving our neighbors as ourselves we are performing the works of our faith. And it is through grace that we are saved in our faith. So works are important and we have been commanded to perform them. Not that they may be saved, but that we may help save our brothers and sisters by being examples of Christ who has the power to save.
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Salvation is granted through the faith of Christ (Christ's faith), not our own. Like all attributes associated with salvation, our faith is a divine gift from God, bestowed by the Holy Spirit, upon becoming born-again. Without this, the phrases "not of yourselves" and "gift of God" in the verse, would not hold true.
‘works follow Faith to God father of rise. son for me, still learning to this day. The works that are God’s work, my own do not. Yet can look good to others and become a fake easily. Once others hear what they want to hear
for me it is the done work of Son. The message of reconciliation
thanks, love the post you posted it was right on to the point
for me it is the done work of Son. The message of reconciliation
thanks, love the post you posted it was right on to the point
And that is a big thing of works, like the parable of the sheep and goats. We are to care for those around us. But we are to do it because we love them and the Lord. If we do them for the recognition of the world we get our reward. Christ taught that too when praying in public or flaunting your tithes.
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I think the issue stems from the results of these works.
1. Many say these works are required. If they are not done. we will LOSE our salvation. Hence our salvation is not based on grace. But works. They will use passages like James 2. Taken out of context. to prove their point. This is a false gospel. and most of the fighting comes from this view.
2. The second view is like you stated. we are saved BY GRACE through faith. not of work. But those who are saved. are created for Good works. That works are not required for salvation, They are the result of salvation. Sadly, the first group sees this as a license to sin. and reject it outright.
so the fight continues..
1. Many say these works are required. If they are not done. we will LOSE our salvation. Hence our salvation is not based on grace. But works. They will use passages like James 2. Taken out of context. to prove their point. This is a false gospel. and most of the fighting comes from this view.
2. The second view is like you stated. we are saved BY GRACE through faith. not of work. But those who are saved. are created for Good works. That works are not required for salvation, They are the result of salvation. Sadly, the first group sees this as a license to sin. and reject it outright.
so the fight continues..
You have to EXPLAIN.
You have to explain then how it is at the last judgement [after we have reigned with Christ 1, 000 years] the sheeps on the right hand of our Lord are commended and given an inheritance because of their good works of mercy toward the brethren of the Lord.
The Great White Throne judgement shows exactly the same thing, those who are raised in the second resurrection which is the called the resurrection of the living and the dead and is 1, 000 years after the first resurrection, the resurrection of the just, the rapture. They are judged by their deeds.
Don't get me wrong now
I believe we are saved by grace alone and not by works. That is the church, and I have a sneaky feeling that this is because we are the worst sinners, the no hopers. So who ARE these others who receive an inheritance? I think the church since the apostolic days have got this doctrine all wrong. It's all down to the Catholics, in those days you were either Roman or Barbarian, Catholic or heathen.
I believe in a BILLIONfold WIDER MERCY on that day.
The meek shall inherit the earth.
You have to explain then how it is at the last judgement [after we have reigned with Christ 1, 000 years] the sheeps on the right hand of our Lord are commended and given an inheritance because of their good works of mercy toward the brethren of the Lord.
The Great White Throne judgement shows exactly the same thing, those who are raised in the second resurrection which is the called the resurrection of the living and the dead and is 1, 000 years after the first resurrection, the resurrection of the just, the rapture. They are judged by their deeds.
Don't get me wrong now
I believe we are saved by grace alone and not by works. That is the church, and I have a sneaky feeling that this is because we are the worst sinners, the no hopers. So who ARE these others who receive an inheritance? I think the church since the apostolic days have got this doctrine all wrong. It's all down to the Catholics, in those days you were either Roman or Barbarian, Catholic or heathen.
I believe in a BILLIONfold WIDER MERCY on that day.
The meek shall inherit the earth.