Not By Works

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stonesoffire

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2013
7,835
172
63

I agree with you

We do this when we love others, We take our focus off self. and the the worry about self and who will take care of me fades, Just give it to God, and serve others.

That is what the two commands are for. to focus on others, and not on self.

Does this make sense? I hope I am not confusing you, I think we are saying the same.
Yes, totally agree.
 

stonesoffire

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2013
7,835
172
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I concur with you here....

I also believe the church has lost sight of this imperative.....that is my main beef....

Intentional and deliberate discipleship, which teaches, matures, and equips people in the church like Jesus did, looks like what?

We have entirely too much teaching and worship songs about everything being God's responsibility, but thank you Jesus for mine....

Now think about my last sentence before you rush in and make a judgement....


When we have people that know the lyrics of every Hillsong worship chorus, know Beth Moore latest teaching, go to all the conferences, watch nothing but Christian TV.....but cannot hear the voice of the Spirit to move on the broken and beaten when they see them....

Houston we have a problem....
Here in this forum Meggido, we have a lot of Christians that cannot go anywhere...confined to their homes because of illness and pain.

So the forum here is the outlet for witness.
 
Mar 14, 2011
52,584
1,082
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I concur with you here....

I also believe the church has lost sight of this imperative.....that is my main beef....

Intentional and deliberate discipleship, which teaches, matures, and equips people in the church like Jesus did, looks like what?

We have entirely too much teaching and worship songs about everything being God's responsibility, but thank you Jesus for mine....

Now think about my last sentence before you rush in and make a judgement....


When we have people that know the lyrics of every Hillsong worship chorus, know Beth Moore latest teaching, go to all the conferences, watch nothing but Christian TV.....but cannot hear the voice of the Spirit to move on the broken and beaten when they see them....

Houston we have a problem....
it is just as bad as my beef of the church getting people saved, but ignoring discipleship. Teach works works works, but never tell people how to do them, and what it takes, And then teach stop sin stop sin stop sin but never tell them how to do it, and judge them when they find out about it (even though in most cases, the people doing the judging are just as guilty.
 
May 12, 2017
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Why would it not be both Meggido? Discipling others and advancing in Kingdom living.

I don't know what new age teaches but is not Sonship, am sure.
Does not the word tell us that the 5 fold gifts are for the maturing and completing of the Body? Yet we have many, even on this board, that would discount everyone of those ministry gifts expect for 3...

How does a child train a child? this makes my point, believe it or not...we are so stuck on passive faith, making passive growth, and that I alone have to be accountable for only MY growth...that we cannot even talk about what true spiritual growth looks like for fear we are talking about works to keep salvation...

Yet the Bible says it takes 5 gifts for the maturing, equipping and building up of the Body of believers....

Despite what people say, we have true lack of spiritual maturity in the Body, because people are not correctly taught what it takes to grow up spiritually in Christ....and that is making disciples....

Paul>>>>>>Priscilla and Aquilla>>>>>>>>Appollos before>>>>>>>Priscilla and Aquilla>>>>>>Appollos equipped and built up>>>>>same power as Paul and thought by some to be the writer of Hebrews.....
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
30,096
971
113
I concur with you here....

I also believe the church has lost sight of this imperative.....that is my main beef....

Intentional and deliberate discipleship, which teaches, matures, and equips people in the church like Jesus did, looks like what?

We have entirely too much teaching and worship songs about everything being God's responsibility, but thank you Jesus for mine....

Now think about my last sentence before you rush in and make a judgement....


When we have people that know the lyrics of every Hillsong worship chorus, know Beth Moore latest teaching, go to all the conferences, watch nothing but Christian TV.....but cannot hear the voice of the Spirit to move on the broken and beaten when they see them....

Houston we have a problem....
Believe it or not....I am old school.....the worship of God is the preaching and teaching of the word....as a matter of fact we only see the disciples singing ONE song in assembly capacity worship (after the Lord's Supper) I always say...JESUS sat the people down and taught them the word....unfortunately many churches today have turned the worship of God into an entertainment money gathering operation....I have told people in my class if you want entertainment go buy a movie ticket....we are here to worship God and the fields to work in are out those doors......
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
30,096
971
113
it is just as bad as my beef of the church getting people saved, but ignoring discipleship. Teach works works works, but never tell people how to do them, and what it takes, And then teach stop sin stop sin stop sin but never tell them how to do it, and judge them when they find out about it (even though in most cases, the people doing the judging are just as guilty.
Within the ranks of my friends we call modern Christianity saved, satisfied and petrified.........
 

stonesoffire

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2013
7,835
172
63
Does not the word tell us that the 5 fold gifts are for the maturing and completing of the Body? Yet we have many, even on this board, that would discount everyone of those ministry gifts expect for 3...

How does a child train a child? this makes my point, believe it or not...we are so stuck on passive faith, making passive growth, and that I alone have to be accountable for only MY growth...that we cannot even talk about what true spiritual growth looks like for fear we are talking about works to keep salvation...

Yet the Bible says it takes 5 gifts for the maturing, equipping and building up of the Body of believers....

Despite what people say, we have true lack of spiritual maturity in the Body, because people are not correctly taught what it takes to grow up spiritually in Christ....and that is making disciples....

Paul>>>>>>Priscilla and Aquilla>>>>>>>>Appollos before>>>>>>>Priscilla and Aquilla>>>>>>Appollos equipped and built up>>>>>same power as Paul and thought by some to be the writer of Hebrews.....
Ok, I gotcha now.

I just saw an article about a preacher who is well known for his healing ministry. You might even know of him if I posted the name he goes by, but doesn't matter. He said the same thing practically. He was tired of meeting up with those who received a healing, but it didn't touch their hearts for salvation, or they lost their healing. And he realized that discipling is needed with the gifts.

I think the body of Christ is waking up...began with seeing the plan of the enemy for the world. And we began to repent and call on the Lord for falling asleep and letting it happen.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
5,091
572
113
I concur with you here....

I also believe the church has lost sight of this imperative.....that is my main beef....

Intentional and deliberate discipleship, which teaches, matures, and equips people in the church like Jesus did, looks like what?

We have entirely too much teaching and worship songs about everything being God's responsibility, but thank you Jesus for mine....

Now think about my last sentence before you rush in and make a judgement....


When we have people that know the lyrics of every Hillsong worship chorus, know Beth Moore latest teaching, go to all the conferences, watch nothing but Christian TV.....but cannot hear the voice of the Spirit to move on the broken and beaten when they see them....

Houston we have a problem....
Not only Houston but the church as a whole

Firstly the saddest thing for me is that the church shoots its wounded.
Those who have gone missing in action are written off.
Those who struggle with sin or don't comply with rules they are taught or do not seem to be maturing are not true believers.

Our church today needs spiritual doctors and nurses.
Tend to the wounded, broken hearted walk with them.

Jesus is the ultimate doctor and we all need be like him.

Its also very sad because If believers are treated like that then the world will see it. A dead and wounded soldier is of no use on the battlefield.

Why on earth would someone who also struggles, who feels worthless and is looking for love want to come to church.

Truly shocking that when some pluck up the courage to come to church are then told you can't do this and can't do that.

My focus one Sunday morning centred on someone I hadn't seen before.

They sat at the back so I went and sat with them. Said hello nice to meet you.
We started to talk he then laid his whole life before me.
An alcoholic, and that was his focus. As we talked he had to go outside and top up. He asked me did I mind
I said no, I'll still be sat here when you get back.
As he went he said I need a fag as well. My response was the same.

He did come back in.

Then he went deeper with me. As I said above he poured out his heart and that heart revealed a broken man who felt worthless and useless and given his life experience it's no wonder he turned to drink.

What really hurt me (and I'm not saying our church or me is like this) he said "I suppose I won't be allowed back again because I'm a sinner and an alcoholic and even if I said I can't stop"

I just said this the place you need to be and don't stop coming.
I love you and Jesus loves you.
Your addiction is not the issue the reasons for your addiction are the issue but Jesus is a great healer.
He loves you enough to accept you where you are and loves you enough to bring you out of it.

Not saying this to look good but to me as you say Church should be a place to come alongside the the broken and the beaten.

Thats what Jesus did.
 

AllenW

Senior Member
Apr 20, 2016
1,408
21
38
Mr. Hart, did you say what works are?
Here is the only works that matter;

John 6:28-29;
28Then they inquired, “What must we do to perform the works of God?” 29Jesus replied, “This is the work of God: to believe in the One He has sent.” Bible Hub
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
4,899
415
83
So you would say that the works we do are simply the outcome of growing up in the House of God as a Son PennEd?

Because that is how I view works. I would say it's works of the Spirit and still not of the natural man. The Spiritual man maturing.
So here we can see that we were ALL dead. Verse 1 says HE made us alive. We heard the Gospel AND believed, then becoming sons of God.

We are a NEW creation IN CHRIST FOR GOOD WORKS that HE prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
[h=3]By Grace Through Faith[/h][FONT=&quot]2 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.[/FONT]
 
Mar 7, 2016
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let it out and go with it like accepting the love OF God and going with it.. accepting the truth and moving on...


To accept the truth for most the perception will be im not believing coz i havent seen or been told directly...

but i say accepting the reality that the closer you draw to God the closer he will to you,,,,,,,,, my biggest perception of this is hoping for salvation ,,, it really does seem to open the comunication barrier for me..