NOT EVERYONE WHO BELIEVES WILL BE SAVED
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You will need to acquaint yourself with (a) saving faith, (b) faith as a spiritual gift, and (c) faith as a fruit of the Spirit. How can faith in an unbeliever be the fruit of the Spirit? And why did Paul say that "Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God (the Gospel)?" (Rom 10:17). What is critical right now is for you to stop muddying the waters and bringing spiritual confusion to those who may be searching for the truth. So we must go right back to Acts 16:30-32: And [the jailer] brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. And they spake unto him the Word of the Lord [the Gospel], and to all that were in his house.
I am glad you're still following along and asking important questions. I think you may have misunderstood me in one point. Let me clarify so we are on the same page on this one point. No unsaved person has the Holy Spirit within them, in this you are correct and I agree. I never meant to say that by my response.
Now, let's leave Calvin out of this equation, it only matters what the Bible teaches, but that is correct, no one is ever saved by keeping any of God's commandments because doing so would be a work. Well, were you aware that "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ" is indeed a commandment and not a plea? Here it is:
1 John 3:23 (KJV 1900)
And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
Are we saved by loving our neighbor? Or by not stealing? Or by not bearing false witness? Of course not, that would be salvation by works. Well, then why when God commands to "believe" is it any different? They are all commandments which if we try to become justified by obeying, we condemn ourselves, because that is a work of righteousness.
Galatians 2:16 (KJV 1900)
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
So, the Bible is clear that salvation is not by our works of obedience. Instead we are justified by the faith (the work) OF Christ (as stated above). Faith cannot be separated from works, meaning one cannot exist without the other, therefore faith cannot save unless it has works.
James 2:14 (KJV 1900)
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? (The answer is, no. The next verse confirms this).
James 2:17 (KJV 1900)
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
And since man's own works can't possibly be in view, we know that it is the faith of Christ through the work he has done to bring about salvation that saves us. This is the only way we can arrive at complete agreement with the scriptures. Please examine for yourself.
Now, let's leave Calvin out of this equation, it only matters what the Bible teaches, but that is correct, no one is ever saved by keeping any of God's commandments because doing so would be a work. Well, were you aware that "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ" is indeed a commandment and not a plea? Here it is:
1 John 3:23 (KJV 1900)
And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
Are we saved by loving our neighbor? Or by not stealing? Or by not bearing false witness? Of course not, that would be salvation by works. Well, then why when God commands to "believe" is it any different? They are all commandments which if we try to become justified by obeying, we condemn ourselves, because that is a work of righteousness.
Galatians 2:16 (KJV 1900)
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
So, the Bible is clear that salvation is not by our works of obedience. Instead we are justified by the faith (the work) OF Christ (as stated above). Faith cannot be separated from works, meaning one cannot exist without the other, therefore faith cannot save unless it has works.
James 2:14 (KJV 1900)
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? (The answer is, no. The next verse confirms this).
James 2:17 (KJV 1900)
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
And since man's own works can't possibly be in view, we know that it is the faith of Christ through the work he has done to bring about salvation that saves us. This is the only way we can arrive at complete agreement with the scriptures. Please examine for yourself.
I believe that true faith creates works naturally, when one has true faith they are moved by the spirit to act, those who follow it's flow do so as if by instict but works that come from faith are the same as works done by normal people anyone can feed the hungry and serve the poor but when one is moved by the spirit to do so it has a different effect.
My understanding is that like the fruits of the spirit works is produced naturally in us we have a new nature a new heart and mind.
My understanding is that like the fruits of the spirit works is produced naturally in us we have a new nature a new heart and mind.
His truth is what they could not accept (just like the Pharisees), and they left on their own because they were not chosen. Again, you seem to have a problem with John Calvin's teachings, and that's fine. I don't know much about him or his doctrines. But if we set aside what theologians teach and just ask, "what does the Bible have to say?", then we can search it out without preconceived notions. I (and perhaps you also) believe that Jesus Christ is God in the flesh. Well, so does Catholicism. Does that mean that you identify with Catholicism in any way? I don't think so because I sure don't. It's the same with what any religion or any theologian teaches. It's what is being taught, not who is teaching it that matters.
Now, the Bible teaches (not Calvin, not me) that no human being had a choice insofar as salvation is concerned. Man's will played no part. I believe I posted some scriptures concerning this in one of my previous responses to you. Here is some of it:
"Here are a few more for you to consider and see how they agree (because agreement is the key) with the doctrine of free will.
John 1:12 (KJV 1900)
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: (This is the free will doctrine position, but it's incomplete. Here is the rest of the verse).
John 1:13 (KJV 1900)
Which were born (meaning, born again), not of blood (not of bloodline), nor of the will of the flesh (not born again by the will of our flesh) nor of the will of man (not born again by man's own will), but of God (but we are born again by the will of God).
James 1:18 (KJV 1900)
Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures. "
Can you answer a question for me? How does John 1:13 agree with the doctrine of free will? Or James 1:18? And there are so many more. It all has to agree, and it does, but not with the free will doctrine.
But then what happens to the rest of the world? Well, God teaches us that God a just God. And that means that God must execute perfect justice according to his written law, that all have sinned and the penalty for sin is death. So, God would have been perfectly just if he decided to wipe mankind off the face of the earth, right? Well, the bible also teaches us that God is a merciful God. So, rather than let everyone perish justly because of their sins, God chose to save some for his glory. He calls them the elect. And it was their sins that Christ paid for.
God helps us understand his sovereignty in this matter by telling us about Jacob who was loved (meaning he had his sins paid for) and Jacob who was hated (meaning, he did not have his sins paid for). God answer the question of this being unfair.
Romans 9:11–16 (KJV 1900)
(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. 13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. 15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Romans 9:19–21 (KJV 1900)
Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? (Why does God still blame me for my sin if none can resist his will?) 20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? 21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
All of this has to be taken into consideration and it has to agree with whatever doctrine we hold to be true, or else we're not holding a true doctrine.
Now, the Bible teaches (not Calvin, not me) that no human being had a choice insofar as salvation is concerned. Man's will played no part. I believe I posted some scriptures concerning this in one of my previous responses to you. Here is some of it:
"Here are a few more for you to consider and see how they agree (because agreement is the key) with the doctrine of free will.
John 1:12 (KJV 1900)
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: (This is the free will doctrine position, but it's incomplete. Here is the rest of the verse).
John 1:13 (KJV 1900)
Which were born (meaning, born again), not of blood (not of bloodline), nor of the will of the flesh (not born again by the will of our flesh) nor of the will of man (not born again by man's own will), but of God (but we are born again by the will of God).
James 1:18 (KJV 1900)
Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures. "
Can you answer a question for me? How does John 1:13 agree with the doctrine of free will? Or James 1:18? And there are so many more. It all has to agree, and it does, but not with the free will doctrine.
But then what happens to the rest of the world? Well, God teaches us that God a just God. And that means that God must execute perfect justice according to his written law, that all have sinned and the penalty for sin is death. So, God would have been perfectly just if he decided to wipe mankind off the face of the earth, right? Well, the bible also teaches us that God is a merciful God. So, rather than let everyone perish justly because of their sins, God chose to save some for his glory. He calls them the elect. And it was their sins that Christ paid for.
God helps us understand his sovereignty in this matter by telling us about Jacob who was loved (meaning he had his sins paid for) and Jacob who was hated (meaning, he did not have his sins paid for). God answer the question of this being unfair.
Romans 9:11–16 (KJV 1900)
(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. 13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. 15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Romans 9:19–21 (KJV 1900)
Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? (Why does God still blame me for my sin if none can resist his will?) 20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? 21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
All of this has to be taken into consideration and it has to agree with whatever doctrine we hold to be true, or else we're not holding a true doctrine.
A misunderstanding on your part does not constitute a mistake on my part. If what you are reading seems like muddy waters, it's because you're not understanding what's being said.
You section off different types of faith, but the Bible doesn't do that. Faith is faith no matter at what stage. And the faith that saves could never have been our own faith as it needed works in order for it to save.
James 2:14 (KJV 1900)
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? (The Bible's answer is, no)
Faith is dead all by itself.
James 2:20 (KJV 1900)
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Therefore, it was always the faith OF Christ that saved and not man's own faith. How can we be sure? Because whoever exercised the faith must have also exercised the works to make that faith of any effect. That's why it could only have ever been the faith of Christ accompanied by his work of redemption.
Galatians 2:16 (KJV 1900)
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Galatians 2:20 (KJV 1900)
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
And, I never said an unbeliever can have or bear the Holy Spirit. Please go back and check. I said that God first has to save an individual and give him the Holy Spirit before he can believe in a way that God requires. That is because true belief was never a requirement for salvation, it was evidence of it. Once God regenerated someone through the hearing of the gospel, that individual was given a new heart and a resurrected immortal soul. Now, is when this individual has the desire to obey all of God commandments, like believe, repent, etc. because these are all works which could never save to begin with.
These works are done to demonstrate our love for Christ, not to become saved. If we love him, we keep his commandments. And we love him because he loved us first. I have given you example after example of this, but it seems like you have not looked into any of those examples. Nevertheless, I will keep providing them if you want additional information. Let's take Saul of Tarsus as our next example. Did Saul make a profession of faith when God saved him? Did he "accept" Christ as his personal Lord and savior? Did he come with a repentant heart before Christ and so become saved? NO WAY. Saul persecuted and killed those who preached Jesus Christ, just like the Pharisees did to Christ himself. But what made Paul any different? Was he having second thoughts on the way to Damascus? Again, no way.
But what had to happen first before Saul would finally follow and preach Christ? God saved him. Paul gives us an account of how he became saved, so we don't have to guess or hypothesize.
Galatians 1:13–16 (KJV 1900)
For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews’ religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it: 14 And profited in the Jews’ religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers. 15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother’s womb, and called me by his grace, 16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
In God's own time, He revealed to Paul, who was chosen, that the same Jesus whom he was persecuting, was inside him. God worked his work of salvation in the life of Paul despite his resistance to the gospel of Christ.
Acts 9:5 (KJV 1900)
And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
Saul, was compared to a stubborn mule who kicks against the pricks that make the mule travel in a certain direction. Paul was going in the wrong direction spiritually until God revealed that Jesus Christ was already in Him. In other words, Paul became saved first, then he became obedient to God's commandments. And lo and behold, God tells us that Saul's salvation account serves as an pattern for everyone who would come to believe.
1 Timothy 1:16 (KJV 1900)
Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
And lastly, let's go over the meaning of Rom 10:17.
Romans 10:17 (KJV) So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
The "hearing" being spoken of here is not physical hearing but spiritual hearing. Faith comes by having your spiritual ears opened by God. And the spiritual opening of the ears (which is salvation) came by the Word of God.
This is why the gospel (the Word of God) had to be preached in all the world, so that God could apply his spoken word to each and everyone he chose to save and give them ears to hear, meaning, give them salvation. Remember Saul of Tarsus.
Now we can understand why Christ often said, "he that hath ears to hear let him hear". Well, physically, everyone had ears to hear (unless they were deaf), but that's not what Christ was referring to. Christ was speaking to those who had already become saved, as they were given ears to hear the spiritual truths of Christ. As opposed to some Pharisees who thought they were children of God, but they did not have salvation. In other words, they did not have ears to hear.
John 8:47 (KJV) He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
This wouldn't agree with the scriptures if Christ was talking about physical hearing in John 8:47. Likewise with Romans 10:17. Faith indeed comes by having ears to hear (hearing) and having ears to hear (hearing) came by the effectual power of the gospel, or the Word of God (which is Christ).
You section off different types of faith, but the Bible doesn't do that. Faith is faith no matter at what stage. And the faith that saves could never have been our own faith as it needed works in order for it to save.
James 2:14 (KJV 1900)
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? (The Bible's answer is, no)
Faith is dead all by itself.
James 2:20 (KJV 1900)
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Therefore, it was always the faith OF Christ that saved and not man's own faith. How can we be sure? Because whoever exercised the faith must have also exercised the works to make that faith of any effect. That's why it could only have ever been the faith of Christ accompanied by his work of redemption.
Galatians 2:16 (KJV 1900)
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Galatians 2:20 (KJV 1900)
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
And, I never said an unbeliever can have or bear the Holy Spirit. Please go back and check. I said that God first has to save an individual and give him the Holy Spirit before he can believe in a way that God requires. That is because true belief was never a requirement for salvation, it was evidence of it. Once God regenerated someone through the hearing of the gospel, that individual was given a new heart and a resurrected immortal soul. Now, is when this individual has the desire to obey all of God commandments, like believe, repent, etc. because these are all works which could never save to begin with.
These works are done to demonstrate our love for Christ, not to become saved. If we love him, we keep his commandments. And we love him because he loved us first. I have given you example after example of this, but it seems like you have not looked into any of those examples. Nevertheless, I will keep providing them if you want additional information. Let's take Saul of Tarsus as our next example. Did Saul make a profession of faith when God saved him? Did he "accept" Christ as his personal Lord and savior? Did he come with a repentant heart before Christ and so become saved? NO WAY. Saul persecuted and killed those who preached Jesus Christ, just like the Pharisees did to Christ himself. But what made Paul any different? Was he having second thoughts on the way to Damascus? Again, no way.
But what had to happen first before Saul would finally follow and preach Christ? God saved him. Paul gives us an account of how he became saved, so we don't have to guess or hypothesize.
Galatians 1:13–16 (KJV 1900)
For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews’ religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it: 14 And profited in the Jews’ religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers. 15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother’s womb, and called me by his grace, 16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
In God's own time, He revealed to Paul, who was chosen, that the same Jesus whom he was persecuting, was inside him. God worked his work of salvation in the life of Paul despite his resistance to the gospel of Christ.
Acts 9:5 (KJV 1900)
And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
Saul, was compared to a stubborn mule who kicks against the pricks that make the mule travel in a certain direction. Paul was going in the wrong direction spiritually until God revealed that Jesus Christ was already in Him. In other words, Paul became saved first, then he became obedient to God's commandments. And lo and behold, God tells us that Saul's salvation account serves as an pattern for everyone who would come to believe.
1 Timothy 1:16 (KJV 1900)
Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
And lastly, let's go over the meaning of Rom 10:17.
Romans 10:17 (KJV) So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
The "hearing" being spoken of here is not physical hearing but spiritual hearing. Faith comes by having your spiritual ears opened by God. And the spiritual opening of the ears (which is salvation) came by the Word of God.
This is why the gospel (the Word of God) had to be preached in all the world, so that God could apply his spoken word to each and everyone he chose to save and give them ears to hear, meaning, give them salvation. Remember Saul of Tarsus.
Now we can understand why Christ often said, "he that hath ears to hear let him hear". Well, physically, everyone had ears to hear (unless they were deaf), but that's not what Christ was referring to. Christ was speaking to those who had already become saved, as they were given ears to hear the spiritual truths of Christ. As opposed to some Pharisees who thought they were children of God, but they did not have salvation. In other words, they did not have ears to hear.
John 8:47 (KJV) He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
This wouldn't agree with the scriptures if Christ was talking about physical hearing in John 8:47. Likewise with Romans 10:17. Faith indeed comes by having ears to hear (hearing) and having ears to hear (hearing) came by the effectual power of the gospel, or the Word of God (which is Christ).
Hello Sophie, there is a wink emoji in my reply to you in post #67. That appeared inadvertently as there must have been a semi colon and a period side by side when I quoted the verse. I never put those in any of my posts and there is no edit button for me to remove it. I think they are uncalled for in Bible discussions, and just wanted to make you aware of it. Thanks
This verse was covered in detail in the opening post as well as throughout this thread. If there is something that I didn't cover that you want to go over, then I'd be more than happy to. Also, please read my post #14 which is like part 2 of my opening post and explains how to believe in the way that God requires it.
Seems more like this isn’t a grey area issue; either someone is a believer or they aren’t.
Blessed are those who believe and have not seen and there are many. Many people, probably most, don’t have the benefit of witnessing the same kind of miracles the Bible describes. If the sole purpose of the miracles in the Bible were for necessary proof then how much more blessed is everyone else who has even a scintilla of faith in what they haven’t seen?
“Not everyone who believes will be saved” is not scripture. Doesn’t matter how many verses you quoted to prop it up. Your whole premise is false.
Here’s the truth:
John 3:16
16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Blessed are those who believe and have not seen and there are many. Many people, probably most, don’t have the benefit of witnessing the same kind of miracles the Bible describes. If the sole purpose of the miracles in the Bible were for necessary proof then how much more blessed is everyone else who has even a scintilla of faith in what they haven’t seen?
“Not everyone who believes will be saved” is not scripture. Doesn’t matter how many verses you quoted to prop it up. Your whole premise is false.
Here’s the truth:
John 3:16
16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
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Sometimes I am hesitant to agree with someone's post because I'm not entirely sure if I understand it completely. So, I will say that I agree here. That true faith creates works (which are obedience to God's commandments) naturally as God works in us to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Philippians 2:13 (KJV 1900)
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
And you're correct, a work is a work. But a work that is done by someone who thinks it will justify them (like "repent" or "believe"), then those works are seen as filthy rags before the eyes of God.
Isaiah 64:6 (KJV 1900)
But we are all as an unclean thing, And all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; And we all do fade as a leaf; And our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
But a work (an obedience to any of his commandments) done by a truly born-again believer, is seen as a good work indeed and is commendable by God, because these good works are being done to demonstrate our love for one who has saved us and not to become saved.
2 John 6 (KJV 1900)
And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.
Philippians 2:13 (KJV 1900)
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
And you're correct, a work is a work. But a work that is done by someone who thinks it will justify them (like "repent" or "believe"), then those works are seen as filthy rags before the eyes of God.
Isaiah 64:6 (KJV 1900)
But we are all as an unclean thing, And all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; And we all do fade as a leaf; And our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
But a work (an obedience to any of his commandments) done by a truly born-again believer, is seen as a good work indeed and is commendable by God, because these good works are being done to demonstrate our love for one who has saved us and not to become saved.
2 John 6 (KJV 1900)
And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.
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Got it, so we can just discard all those other verses because we don't agree with them and because they disagree with our doctrine. That's not a good way to develop true doctrine. Don't we have to compare scripture with scripture, and isn't all scripture given for doctrine? It would seem you're not interested in any further discussion then.
And yes, John 3:16 is indeed true, as long as we understand it in light of the rest of the Bible.
Isaiah 28:9–10 (KJV 1900)
Whom shall he teach knowledge? And whom shall he make to understand doctrine? Them that are weaned from the milk, And drawn from the breasts. 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; Line upon line, line upon line; Here a little, and there a little:
There you have it. Since John 3:16 is true then the opposite can’t be true. Meaning “not everyone who believes will be saved” is your false doctrine.
We can have Bible discussions, but fiddling with the gospel is not a good idea. Let me remind you of this passage:
Galatians 1:8-9
8But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
We can have Bible discussions, but fiddling with the gospel is not a good idea. Let me remind you of this passage:
Galatians 1:8-9
8But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
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When we are saved our mortal body dead in sin is born again and made into a body for eternal life. Being baptized in living water explains it. We enter the water deep in sin and the living water of Christ washes the sin all away , we are a changed person. We still have the mortal urge to like sin, but Christ within overpowers it with His will not to sin and we repent. We now let Christ minister to us and lead our lives with faith in that leadership. The sermon on the mount becomes Christ taking our hand and directing our paths. That is being saved so we live eternally. The kingdom of heaven is our true home, we just reside in the world temporarily.
Many verses teach this truth. This was the purpose of the opening post. I gave plenty of examples for you to compare against the scriptures to see if it is so. If you disagree with any part of the post or have a question, then we can discuss it here. But please read the entire opening post first as it may answer some of your questions, including this one.
Got it. So, since you are unwilling to do what the scriptures instruct us to do in rightly dividing the word of truth and compare the whole Bible with the whole Bible to make sure we have correct doctrine, then what more is there for me to say? And if you consider comparing scripture with scripture as fiddling with the gospel, then, again, it seems our discussion is halted here.
This a bible forum here’s a thought why don’t we let the Bible Speak!
If we are going to speak about the heart shouldn’t we know what the Bible says the heart is?
Thoughts come from your mind not that pump in your chest. When the Bible speaks about the heart is talking about your Mind!
Mark 7:21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Mark 7:21 that was in red by the way, straight out the Lords mouth)
Love: according to wait for it the Bible!
Love: 1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. (grievous = not hard)
Love: 2 John 1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.
So what should we do with these scriptures? You Scholars out there! Redact them?
1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
What should we do with these scripture? Redact them?
This is nuts so- Christians refusing to keep Gods Laws!
Proverbs 7:2 Keep my commandments, and live; and my law as the apple of thine eye.
If we are going to speak about the heart shouldn’t we know what the Bible says the heart is?
Thoughts come from your mind not that pump in your chest. When the Bible speaks about the heart is talking about your Mind!
Mark 7:21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Mark 7:21 that was in red by the way, straight out the Lords mouth)
Love: according to wait for it the Bible!
Love: 1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. (grievous = not hard)
Love: 2 John 1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.
So what should we do with these scriptures? You Scholars out there! Redact them?
1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
What should we do with these scripture? Redact them?
This is nuts so- Christians refusing to keep Gods Laws!
Proverbs 7:2 Keep my commandments, and live; and my law as the apple of thine eye.