Obedience & righteousness - extreme grace version

[ember]

In some ways I wish people could get away from the idea everything relates back to salvation when everything relates to Gods will and walking in the Kingdom.

what is the alternative if you refuse Christ?

do you think you will be in God's kingdom?

see...this is another sign you do not understand the gospel

do you actually understand what salvation entails? do you think it is a prayer a child says in Sunday School?

what is salvation to you?

why on earth would you want to STOP discussing salvation? That is the entire purpose of the Bible...it is the starting point of EVERYTHING that follows

Without salvation we are not righteous and if we are not righteous with the righteousness that God Himself has provided, then we are doomed

 

[PeterJens]

free to sin from the ones YOU accuse herose, of making those statements

This again is a false question. People have had long conversations about how when you sin in christ your are instantly forgiven while you are sinning. Maybe you missed this Ember a few months back. It did my head in a bit.

It came because of the idea all sin in the world is forgiven after the cross and judgement is only on deeds, actions.
The only good deeds were those done in Christ, everything else was evil.

Now I have to say this was a very refined theological place, that I had never been before. It is so extreme, close to universalism, that was my conclusion.

The other problem is once you redefine sin as not relevant because no one is under law, what do you say is sin?
If your conscience cannot tell you what is sin, or the Holy Spirit, is evil actually a reality?

So you see you can deny sin two ways. Define certain actions which are declared by the law as sinful as being ok, or take the law away and any definitions of sin, so no one has the language to call behaviour sinful. It is the same effect but by a different means.

I hope this answers your question.

 

[ember]

Are you saying we are NOT to pray? You don't send knee mail? Very confusing sir.

really?

or is that perhaps only confusing to you?

there is nothing in his post about not praying

are you trying to derail what he states? I would hope not

 

[ember]

This again is a false question. People have had long conversations about how when you sin in christ your are instantly forgiven while you are sinning. Maybe you missed this Ember a few months back. It did my head in a bit.

LOL!...how about the rest of the post?

it made perfect sense in context

you do try very hard to seem right and the harder you try, the more wrong it appears you are

 

[PeterJens]

stop accusing people of being angry...

EG lost it the other day and you did a month or so back.

You are again back to ordering me about. Does not work you know. You do not have that authority or power.
By the way saying I had any influence on cc was just your invention, so I have no confidence on your ability to control your contributions.

 

[ember]

EG lost it the other day and you did a month or so back.

You are again back to ordering me about. Does not work you know. You do not have that authority or power.
By the way saying I had any influence on cc was just your invention, so I have no confidence on your ability to control your contributions.

are you saved?

if you are, would you please give us your explanation of what that is?

see, I have asked that from you for the second time now and you deflect and make a personal attack

why can't you stay on the subject? why is that?

you constantly ask questions...why do you see a simple question as an order?

do you have a problem with explaining salvation?

 

[ember]

EG lost it the other day and you did a month or so back.

You are again back to ordering me about. Does not work you know. You do not have that authority or power.
By the way saying I had any influence on cc was just your invention, so I have no confidence on your ability to control your contributions.

what on earth?

you are not even making sense at this point!

 

[PeterJens]

what is the alternative if you refuse Christ?

Ember. You struck me to my heart. You believe I have an evil spirit, and am not saved.
Do you know how easy salvation is? Dear Lord, I repent of my sins, I trust on your cross for the forgiveness of my sins, I turn from my sin and desire to follow you. Please come into my life and teach me your ways, Amen.

If you pray this prayer from your heart you are born again.

It is not more difficult than that. But you have been deceived into another gospel, and another way.
The more you share the more obvious it is.

Your heart is confused and chaotic, which is why you have such a hard time with your emotions and restraining yourself when you feel passionate about anything. It is also why you are driven to exert control over me or anyone you deem necessary. I have never been like this, and just want to share what is in my heart.

Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.
Rev 7:10

 

[ember]

SALVATION

that word means far more then a simple 'I'm not going to hell'

the Greek word 'sozo'...to save means

GOD delivers
protects
heals
preserves
saves AND makes whole

who does God save? those who believe, trust in and rely on HIM

Grace is not something we earn. It is something God Himself provides.

These threads that attempt to nullify grace or put some other explanation on salvation are ANTI gospel. There is only one truth not a different interpretation or understanding

The gospel is so simple and so attainable that some miss it by leaning on their own understanding

It would be so beneficial to discuss the truth and how wonderful God's salvation is instead of having to defend against things that no one has even said or responding to false accusations like you are angry or you are trying to control me

Control is not a godly attribute. Twisting what others say is not godly and accusing falsely is not godly either

 

[ember]

“The very center and core of the whole Bible is the doctrine of the grace of God.”
–J. Gresham Machen


“Grace” is the most important concept in the Bible, Christianity, and the world. It is most clearly expressed in the promises of God revealed in Scripture and embodied in Jesus Christ.

Grace is the love of God shown to the unlovely; the peace of God given to the restless; the unmerited favor of God.

 

[Nikki84]

really?

or is that perhaps only confusing to you?

there is nothing in his post about not praying

are you trying to derail what he states? I would hope not

Ummmmmm just asking clarification. I believe EG can do that for him/her self

 

[ember]

............................Grace is MERCY not MERIT

 

[ember]

Ummmmmm just asking clarification. I believe EG can do that for him/her self

well he has numerous times...you do not seem to believe him

ps: it's a public forum

 

[ember]

Question: "What is the grace of God?"

Answer: Grace is a constant theme in the Bible, and it culminates in the New Testament with the coming of Jesus (John 1:17). The word translated "grace" in the New Testament comes from the Greek word charis, which means “favor, blessing, or kindness.” We can all extend grace to others; but when the word grace is used in connection with God, it takes on a more powerful meaning. Grace is God choosing to bless us rather than curse us as our sin deserves. It is His benevolence to the undeserving.

Ephesians 2:8 says, "For by grace are you saved, through faith, and that not of yourselves." The only way any of us can enter into a relationship with God is because of His grace toward us. Grace began in the Garden of Eden when God killed an animal to cover the sin of Adam and Eve (Genesis 3:21). He could have killed the first humans right then for their disobedience. But rather than destroy them, He chose to make a way for them to be right with Him. That pattern of grace continued throughout the Old Testament when God instituted blood sacrifices as a means to atone for sinful men. It was not the blood of those sacrifices that cleansed sinners; it was the grace of God that forgave those who trusted in Him (Hebrews 10:4; Genesis 15:6).

The apostle Paul began many of his letters with the phrase, "Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ" (Romans 1:7; Ephesians 1:1; 1 Corinthians 1:3). God is the instigator of grace, and it is from Him that all other grace flows.


READ ALL ABOUT IT HERE

 

[PeterJens]

what on earth?
you are not even making sense at this point!

Ember. I know you too well.

There is never going to be a sensible conversation between us, because I want to know things you are very defensive about, like where your heart is, how love sings in your life.

You were all spiritual gifts, power and miracles, emotions are irrelevant. As I do not buy it, it confuses you, and you have tried full frontal assaults before.

What I have said is my beliefs are always simple and straightforward. If you do not like them, that is your problem.
I can only testify to my own life and experience. I do not conform to the loudest bully in the room.

I also did not choose this battle, but it needs to be fought because the issues are core to life, morality, the gospel, Jesus and the cross.

In Jesus I stand, on His cross I depend, for he bought righteousness to my table and asked me to eat with Him, the great King, the Lord of Lords. I just repeat His words and His precepts the things the prophets of old preached and died for, the things Jesus went to the cross for, and people here not condemn as evil.

Should we love our enemies? Should we bless those who slander and miss treat us? Should we turn the other cheek?

God bless you Ember, and may His peace rest on your soul.

 

[ember]

14The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

John 1:14

see? Jesus has all the grace we will ever need! What we really need, is to learn how to appropriate that grace

 

[Blain]

Peter... it is not cool to make a thread specifically to talk about a person who you argued with and while I think both you and eg said things that should not have been said you are the only one who is slandering at this point and that is unacceptable.

Obedience and righteousness, all of us are lacking both of these in some way or form. But if one does not understand what both of these things are to begin with then they are lead to see and believe a false sense of obedience and righteousness. A virtuous heart while is rarely ever born it can be learned and when one has a virtuous heart they instinctively know right from wrong they instinctively understand grace obedience and righteousness.

To be obedient to God is not about how much you don't disobey, grace obedience and righteousness are all intertwined all having to do with each other. Obedience to him is about the heart of a person not how well they obey him, if we love him we do our best to obey him but only do so because our hearts are compelled to do so because of how we adore him how our hearts are filled with such a rich love for him. Even knowing that we screw up sometimes we get back up and keep moving forwards because his grace breaks our chains of never doing good enough or being good enough.

The righteousness of a person is seen and made not because they are perfect or are fully obedient but because they truly adore and love him with all their hearts with every fiber of their being every cell within their body, it because of this that in his and because of what Jesus did for us that even though we are far from perfect far from pure far from fully obedient and far from righteous he only sees perfection in every way when he sees us.

Everything about faith be that righteousness be that having a pure heart be that being strong everything the bible teaches us to be everything that Jesus taught us everything about what makes a Christian and what it means to be one all is based on the relationship between the hearts of God and the child of God the bond and the relationship the connection and understanding of each other.

 

[FreeNChrist]

This again is a false question. People have had long conversations about how when you sin in christ your are instantly forgiven while you are sinning. Maybe you missed this Ember a few months back. It did my head in a bit.

It came because of the idea all sin in the world is forgiven after the cross and judgement is only on deeds, actions.
The only good deeds were those done in Christ, everything else was evil.

Now I have to say this was a very refined theological place, that I had never been before. It is so extreme, close to universalism, that was my conclusion.

The other problem is once you redefine sin as not relevant because no one is under law, what do you say is sin?
If your conscience cannot tell you what is sin, or the Holy Spirit, is evil actually a reality?

So you see you can deny sin two ways. Define certain actions which are declared by the law as sinful as being ok, or take the law away and any definitions of sin, so no one has the language to call behaviour sinful. It is the same effect but by a different means.

I hope this answers your question.

"I sometime wonder if we should attach IQ and emotional intelligence tests for contributors. I have met many people who are just not with it enough other than to express their perspective. It is not their fault." - PeterJens

 

[Nikki84]

well he has numerous times...you do not seem to believe him

ps: it's a public forum

EG wrote "So God gives you grace as you are perfect. And not because you are like tax collector who has to get on your knees"

This seems like an indictment against. prayer. That's why I want the clarification. I don't want to fight with you

 

[PeterJens]

These threads that attempt to nullify grace or put some other explanation on salvation are ANTI gospel. There is only one truth not a different interpretation or understanding

This is a big statement. "These threads nullify grace"

This thread is to answer a particular accusation, that saying obedience to Christs commands is works salvation.

Now there is no honest discussion here because whatever points I make will be ignored, because the belief people have in their own position is solid and unmovable. But for those still undecided this thread has value.

I did not want to flood OSAS thread, because that already has enough.

In truth I have put my response to the accusation and answered it.

EG wants to say I am lying, but has failed to do what he set out to do, and say where. He is very keen to say you lie about this and that, but not actually find any contents.

I did make one mistake once, I called him a calvanist. Mistake because he was so insulted, he hates labels and calvanists.
It turns out he is actually a mixture between amenian and calvanist, the opposite to my position.

Now I do apologise if a general summary insults you, it is just short hand to make points. People hate straw men arguments, but they work, and Jesus used parables to make His points, which are another version of this.

As far as I can I will tell you my take on anything, and I will try and forgive you if you upset me, give me half a hour and I am usually ok. I am rambling, too much content over too short a time.