Obedience & righteousness - extreme grace version
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There is a battle going on here that is, for the most part concealed or veiled.
The main issue is not sin. satan knows full well that Christ PAID for all sin and sin is FINISHED.
SO he has a counterfeit system............religion. And his counterfeit puts the focus back onto that which Christ has already finished.....sin.
satans counterfeit system leaves its adherents unsaved, yet "looking" good because he has them deceived into fighting sin on their OWN merits and self will.
satan...." Get the creature to focus on sin and clean up their lives on their own, independent of God. I will even use the name of jesus and His Word, but I will twist it. And I will use these "good" people to antagonize Gods Grace and His true Church."
So satan uses sin as cover to mask his real deception.........get the creature to clean up their own life and focus on sin(which is finished) and use self righteousness and sinning less to attack grace and the true Church.
How great is our darkness if we think we are in the light? satans MO for today.
The main issue is not sin. satan knows full well that Christ PAID for all sin and sin is FINISHED.
SO he has a counterfeit system............religion. And his counterfeit puts the focus back onto that which Christ has already finished.....sin.
satans counterfeit system leaves its adherents unsaved, yet "looking" good because he has them deceived into fighting sin on their OWN merits and self will.
satan...." Get the creature to focus on sin and clean up their lives on their own, independent of God. I will even use the name of jesus and His Word, but I will twist it. And I will use these "good" people to antagonize Gods Grace and His true Church."
So satan uses sin as cover to mask his real deception.........get the creature to clean up their own life and focus on sin(which is finished) and use self righteousness and sinning less to attack grace and the true Church.
How great is our darkness if we think we are in the light? satans MO for today.
Over the months Grace7x77 posted time and again this guy from Holland talking about the Lords prayer as old covenant and not new covenant. He went through each line and showed in his view why it was not a christian prayer.
Now it takes no leap of faith or understanding that grace7x77 believes this. I am not splitting hairs and equally I am not going to spend a long time tracking this down. I am sure he will find the guy again if you ask him. So I have zero trust in him.
Now it takes no leap of faith or understanding that grace7x77 believes this. I am not splitting hairs and equally I am not going to spend a long time tracking this down. I am sure he will find the guy again if you ask him. So I have zero trust in him.
E
So you falsely accuse grace believers, I call you out on it, And I am a false accuser?
Keep it up HRFTD, Your self righteousness is showing, everyone is starting to see it. It's your nature.
Sorry, But listenign to what people apposed to grace teaching tell you grace teaches, is not finding out what grace teaches, You have to go to a grace believer with an open heart to find out what they believe.
It is obvious, and quite apparent you have not done this. because you keep making accusations of grace believers that no one believes.
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we ( believers - namely John ) have looked at and our hands have touched - this we proclaim concerning the Word of Life"
(I John 1:1).
In other words, John is establishing that he was an eyewitness to the fact that Jesus truly did come in the flesh. He did this to convince the Gnostics that Jesus was not an illusion.
"We ( believers - namely John himself ) proclaim to you ( unbelievers - including gnostics ) what we have seen and heard, so that you (unbelievers - gnostics ) also may have fellowship with us ( believers ). And our ( believers )fellowship is with the Father and with His Son, Jesus Christ" (verse 3).
This verse says two things. First, John repeats the fact that he, the rest of the apostles and other people saw Christ in the flesh. He wanted the Gnostics ( unbelievers ) to realize that there were many people who could testify to the reality of Christ. Second, he is saying that there are some people in the audience who were not in the fellowship with Christ. ( just like we do now in all churches....there are both types of people )
"This is the message we ( believers ) have heard from Him and declare to you ( unbelievers ): God is light; in Him there is no darkness at all" (verse 5).
John's message in this verse is clear: God is light and in Him there is no darkness. We are either in the light (saved) or in darkness (lost). Scriptures are full of this comparison between light (saved) vs. darkness (lost).
"If we claim to have fellowship with Him yet walk in darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth." (verse 6).
In other words, if someone says he has fellowship with Christ, but is walking in darkness (lost), he is lying and not practicing the truth. The Gnostics ( not true believers ) claimed to be in fellowship with Christ (saved), and yet were actually living a lie and therefore weren't practicing the truth.
"If we ( believers ) walk in the light, as He is in the light, we ( believers ) have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, His Son, purifies us ( believers ) from all sin" (verse 7).
In other words, if we walk in the light (are saved) we have fellowship with one another and the blood of Christ cleanses us from all sin. To put it another way, once we are saved, we are permanently in the fellowship because the blood of Jesus continually cleanses us from all sin. Therefore, we aren't forgiven because we confess our sins. We are forgiven because of what Christ did for us on the cross.
"If we ( John putting all of us in the same boat before coming to Christ ) claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us" (verse 8).
John is now addressing the belief the Gnostics had regarding sin because they didn't believe it was real and therefore believed they had no sin. The "we" John is using here refers to all people before coming to Christ including all believers too which "we" had to acknowledge at some point in our lives. He is referring specifically to the Gnostics, who believed they were without sin. Because they claimed to be without sin, then they were only deceiving themselves and the truth (Jesus) was not in them.
However, verse 9 says that "if we confess our sins, He is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness." In other words, if the Gnostics were to confess they had sins, then God, Who is faithful and righteous, would forgive and cleanse them from their unrighteousness. In the Greek language, the words "forgive" and "cleanse" mean past actions that have results today and will continue to have results in the future.
Also, the word "all" used in these verses means all. It doesn't mean that we are cleansed of our past sins and our past unrighteousness, it means we were cleansed of all our unrighteousness. And if God cleanses us from all unrighteousness, then we are cleansed forever!
"If we claim we ( all of us were in this boat at one time ) have not sinned, we make Him out to be a liar and His word has no place in our lives" (verse 10).
Basically this verse is a repeat of verse 8. To put it simply, it means that the Gnostics can't claim to be without sin and yet be saved. John is saying that because the Gnostics claimed they had no sin, they were actually calling God a liar and therefore didn't know the truth.
The purpose of the first chapter of 1 John was to compare the truth of God to the error of gnosticism. John was addressing the Gnostics, who were deceived by their own teaching. He wanted the Gnostics to understand that what they believed conflicted with what God said. He was not, however, addressing believers.
Then in chapter 2:1 John says..I write these things unto you so that you may not sin but if you do - you have an Advocate ..Jesus the righteous who stands in our place with His righteousness to take our sin away.
Let's believe in His finished work for us.
(I John 1:1).
In other words, John is establishing that he was an eyewitness to the fact that Jesus truly did come in the flesh. He did this to convince the Gnostics that Jesus was not an illusion.
"We ( believers - namely John himself ) proclaim to you ( unbelievers - including gnostics ) what we have seen and heard, so that you (unbelievers - gnostics ) also may have fellowship with us ( believers ). And our ( believers )fellowship is with the Father and with His Son, Jesus Christ" (verse 3).
This verse says two things. First, John repeats the fact that he, the rest of the apostles and other people saw Christ in the flesh. He wanted the Gnostics ( unbelievers ) to realize that there were many people who could testify to the reality of Christ. Second, he is saying that there are some people in the audience who were not in the fellowship with Christ. ( just like we do now in all churches....there are both types of people )
"This is the message we ( believers ) have heard from Him and declare to you ( unbelievers ): God is light; in Him there is no darkness at all" (verse 5).
John's message in this verse is clear: God is light and in Him there is no darkness. We are either in the light (saved) or in darkness (lost). Scriptures are full of this comparison between light (saved) vs. darkness (lost).
"If we claim to have fellowship with Him yet walk in darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth." (verse 6).
In other words, if someone says he has fellowship with Christ, but is walking in darkness (lost), he is lying and not practicing the truth. The Gnostics ( not true believers ) claimed to be in fellowship with Christ (saved), and yet were actually living a lie and therefore weren't practicing the truth.
"If we ( believers ) walk in the light, as He is in the light, we ( believers ) have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, His Son, purifies us ( believers ) from all sin" (verse 7).
In other words, if we walk in the light (are saved) we have fellowship with one another and the blood of Christ cleanses us from all sin. To put it another way, once we are saved, we are permanently in the fellowship because the blood of Jesus continually cleanses us from all sin. Therefore, we aren't forgiven because we confess our sins. We are forgiven because of what Christ did for us on the cross.
"If we ( John putting all of us in the same boat before coming to Christ ) claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us" (verse 8).
John is now addressing the belief the Gnostics had regarding sin because they didn't believe it was real and therefore believed they had no sin. The "we" John is using here refers to all people before coming to Christ including all believers too which "we" had to acknowledge at some point in our lives. He is referring specifically to the Gnostics, who believed they were without sin. Because they claimed to be without sin, then they were only deceiving themselves and the truth (Jesus) was not in them.
However, verse 9 says that "if we confess our sins, He is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness." In other words, if the Gnostics were to confess they had sins, then God, Who is faithful and righteous, would forgive and cleanse them from their unrighteousness. In the Greek language, the words "forgive" and "cleanse" mean past actions that have results today and will continue to have results in the future.
Also, the word "all" used in these verses means all. It doesn't mean that we are cleansed of our past sins and our past unrighteousness, it means we were cleansed of all our unrighteousness. And if God cleanses us from all unrighteousness, then we are cleansed forever!
"If we claim we ( all of us were in this boat at one time ) have not sinned, we make Him out to be a liar and His word has no place in our lives" (verse 10).
Basically this verse is a repeat of verse 8. To put it simply, it means that the Gnostics can't claim to be without sin and yet be saved. John is saying that because the Gnostics claimed they had no sin, they were actually calling God a liar and therefore didn't know the truth.
The purpose of the first chapter of 1 John was to compare the truth of God to the error of gnosticism. John was addressing the Gnostics, who were deceived by their own teaching. He wanted the Gnostics to understand that what they believed conflicted with what God said. He was not, however, addressing believers.
Then in chapter 2:1 John says..I write these things unto you so that you may not sin but if you do - you have an Advocate ..Jesus the righteous who stands in our place with His righteousness to take our sin away.
Let's believe in His finished work for us.
Yes. That's what we're trying to tell you. Grace777x70 is your man. That's what started this whole controversy. He posted a video from Andrew Farley who teaches this very thing. And since I love you because you repented to me, I did the work for you.
This is what Farely teaches in his own words:
And here's the link to where this all started > http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/127191-hyper-grace-6.html#post2384648
This is what Farely teaches in his own words:
"Since the events described in this book took place during the culmination of old testament times, Jesus was actually speaking to believers who lived under the old covenant. His listeners were not new covenant believers as we are so not everything that he said and taught applies to us today and the Lord’s Prayer is a perfect example of an old testament teaching that does not apply to us".
And here's the link to where this all started > http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/127191-hyper-grace-6.html#post2384648
E
do you have a quote for those words you posted. I hit the link, did not see them..
As for what you are doing, Your quote says it all
When you want to find out what a guy teaches, you do not read of him, You read him, You go ask him,
Not everything you read about another person is going to be truthful
As for what you are doing, Your quote says it all
When you want to find out what a guy teaches, you do not read of him, You read him, You go ask him,
Not everything you read about another person is going to be truthful
Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits before his throne, and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.
To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.
Rev 1:4-7
Are we a kingdom of priests or failed saints struggling and never succeeding, always in sin and never overcoming or finding victory? Failed saints is the teaching of Grace7x77
If that is what Christ brought you into, you can have it.
Jesus knows our names, and we listen to His voice. It is as plain as day to me, everytime I share the teaching of this group how empty and lost it all is. The wonder is they love to quote scripture and show how their version makes it all work, while actually is just an excuse for continued failure and staying where you are.
To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.
Rev 1:4-7
Are we a kingdom of priests or failed saints struggling and never succeeding, always in sin and never overcoming or finding victory? Failed saints is the teaching of Grace7x77
If that is what Christ brought you into, you can have it.
Jesus knows our names, and we listen to His voice. It is as plain as day to me, everytime I share the teaching of this group how empty and lost it all is. The wonder is they love to quote scripture and show how their version makes it all work, while actually is just an excuse for continued failure and staying where you are.
P
Check out this source and tell me what you think.
"False spiritual teachers were a big problem in the early church. Because there was not a complete New Testament that believers could refer to, many churches fell prey to pretenders who taught their own ideas and advanced themselves as leaders. John wrote this letter to set the record straight on some important issues, particularly concerning the identity of Jesus Christ."
Book of 1 John - Bible Survey
"False spiritual teachers were a big problem in the early church. Because there was not a complete New Testament that believers could refer to, many churches fell prey to pretenders who taught their own ideas and advanced themselves as leaders. John wrote this letter to set the record straight on some important issues, particularly concerning the identity of Jesus Christ."
Book of 1 John - Bible Survey
E
And here we have another false accuser who does not understand a but of what Grace777 teaches.
When will you ad your brother HRFTD stop listing to what other people tell you others believe, and actually go to the aource himself You can not read what Grace777's has written and come up with all this nonsense you all accuse him of.
When will you ad your brother HRFTD stop listing to what other people tell you others believe, and actually go to the aource himself You can not read what Grace777's has written and come up with all this nonsense you all accuse him of.
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