Obedient Woman

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Mar 4, 2020
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Just my thoughts, but I'm pretty sure Jesus wouldn't want people getting a divorce due to impure thoughts only. ...and then again maybe if someone was totally addicted to porn and was a pervert who thought about other sexual partners all the time...then maybe it would be acceptable to divorce someone like that. IDK
I can respect that opinion and I think it's better for couples to not get divorced over mere thoughts/feelings/desires. I think it's just not right for someone to lust after anyone who isn't their spouse, no matter how short the frequency/duration of the lust is.
 
Mar 4, 2020
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Lust is desire or coveteousness. You can find that word, or a version of it, in the 10 commandments in the Greek LXX. In Romans 7:7, Paul wrote, '...for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. ' The term is not exclusively about sex, either.

in the verse in Matthew 5 it is a bit more specific. The man who looks at a woman ____in order to lust___ has committed adultery with her already in his heart.
Let's use a common example of lust to illustrate exactly what it is so that it's perfectly clear what it is.

It's dinner time, I have an option of string beans or a juicy steak. I consciously choose the juicy steak because it's a better meal than string beans, in my opinion. I'm lusting after the juicy steak because it looks better, tastes better, and smells better then the string beans. I desire the steak.
 
Aug 20, 2021
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So you don't respect the practice of Medicine? Were you vaccinated? Would you rather die of Covid?
absurd assumption on your part.On a slightly different note Why do you think they call alcohol spirits?Covids a lie.but i would get the shot any way.All bad things are from the curse of sin.And yes hearing voices and things of that nature are from fallen angles.That includes alcohol psychosis
 

Icedaisey

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Jul 19, 2021
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This passages and the verses tha tfollow say to submit to one another and then tell whom to submit to whom.

Ephesians 6:1
6 Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. 2 “Honor your father and mother,” which is the first commandment with promise: 3 “that it may be well with you and you may live long on the earth.”
4 And you, fathers, do not provoke your children to wrath, but bring them up in the training and admonition of the Lord.
5 Bondservants, be obedient to those who are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in sincerity of heart, as to Christ;
(NKJV) Bold emphasis mine.




Wives are to submit to their husbands. Children are to obey their masters. Bonservants are to obey their masters.
You dismiss the teaching in 1st Peter. “Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.”
When two become one what is good for one is good for the other.
Furthermore, of course children should obey their parents. And respect them. That is one of the Decalogue.Parents are not a child's master! Is it that way in your house? You are the master of your children?

And Bond-servant, is a slave. One sold into bondage against their will. This is not the same as an Indentured Servant.
 

Icedaisey

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Jul 19, 2021
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I've said before that I was a practicing Muslim for over 7 years. God knows my heart and you do not. It is him who I will face. You and I are finished.
Your attitude speaks volumes. You're a fraud.
Yes, we are finished. And you shall indeed answer to God. For he knows your heart. And we know your words.
Former Muslims turned Christian do not disrespect Jesus with all that applies in addressing him as a prophet, not the son of God, by using PBUH.
Jesus IS PEACE!
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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All bad things are from the curse of sin.And yes hearing voices and things of that nature are from fallen angles.That includes alcohol psychosis
Unfortunately, the information you have on this subject is either archaic, inadequate, or both. I would encourage you to do some research before sharing your opinion.
 

Icedaisey

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
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absurd assumption on your part.On a slightly different note Why do you think they call alcohol spirits?Covids a lie.but i would get the shot any way.All bad things are from the curse of sin.And yes hearing voices and things of that nature are from fallen angles.That includes alcohol psychosis
Would you rephrase this please? "Covids a lie.but i would get the shot any way. "
Why would you get the Covid-19 vaccine, and irrevocably alter your body chemistry, if Covid is a lie?
 

Icedaisey

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
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You dismiss the teaching in 1st Peter. “Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.”
When two become one what is good for one is good for the other.
Furthermore, of course children should obey their parents. And respect them. That is one of the Decalogue.Parents are not a child's master! Is it that way in your house? You are the master of your children?

And Bond-servant, is a slave. One sold into bondage against their will. This is not the same as an Indentured Servant.
And just for context. Don't presume there are not former Muslims on this site.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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You dismiss the teaching in 1st Peter. “Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.”
When two become one what is good for one is good for the other.
I think you are confused. 'Two shall be one flesh' does not contradict the instruction that wives submit to their husbands. Peter also tells wives to submit to their own husbands in I Peter 3.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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Let's use a common example of lust to illustrate exactly what it is so that it's perfectly clear what it is.

It's dinner time, I have an option of string beans or a juicy steak. I consciously choose the juicy steak because it's a better meal than string beans, in my opinion. I'm lusting after the juicy steak because it looks better, tastes better, and smells better then the string beans. I desire the steak.
Typically, in the New Testament it is used for illegitimate desire.

You don't 'covet' your own steak. You could covet your neighbor's steak. You don't covet your own wife. You could covet your neighbors wife. Of course, doing so would be a sin.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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Wives submit to your own husbands and husbands love your wives... can love and submitting be considered practically synonymous?
No, but the two concepts should not be seen as at odds with each other either.
 

Icedaisey

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
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I think you are confused. 'Two shall be one flesh' does not contradict the instruction that wives submit to their husbands. Peter also tells wives to submit to their own husbands in I Peter 3.
John 13:34-35“So now I am giving you a new commandment: Love each other. Just as I have loved you, you should love each other. Your love for one another will prove to the world that you are my disciples. "

Ephesians 5:21 Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ ."
Galatians 3:28 “There is no longer Jew or Gentile, slave or free, male and female. For you are all one in Christ Jesus."

Mark 10:6-9
“But at the beginning of creation God ‘made them male and female.’[a] 7 ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife,[b] 8 and the two will become one flesh.’[c] So they are no longer two, but one flesh. 9 Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”
Footnotes
  1. a.Mark 10:6 Gen. 1:27
  2. b.Mark 10:7 Some early manuscripts do not have and be united to his wife.
  3. c. Mark 10:8 Gen. 2:24

"Any theology that gives authority to men over women is not only unbiblical and wrong; it is a recipe for disunity, dysfunction, and destruction. Why? Because it’s not just, and human beings were made in the image of a just God. "
Source: July 11, 2016
Wives Love Your Husbands, Husbands Submit To Your Wives
by Jory Micah
 

Icedaisey

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
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John 13:34-35“So now I am giving you a new commandment: Love each other. Just as I have loved you, you should love each other. Your love for one another will prove to the world that you are my disciples. "

Ephesians 5:21 Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ ."
Galatians 3:28 “There is no longer Jew or Gentile, slave or free, male and female. For you are all one in Christ Jesus."

Mark 10:6-9
“But at the beginning of creation God ‘made them male and female.’[a] 7 ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife,[b] 8 and the two will become one flesh.’[c] So they are no longer two, but one flesh. 9 Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”
Footnotes
  1. a.Mark 10:6 Gen. 1:27
  2. b.Mark 10:7 Some early manuscripts do not have and be united to his wife.
  3. c. Mark 10:8 Gen. 2:24

"Any theology that gives authority to men over women is not only unbiblical and wrong; it is a recipe for disunity, dysfunction, and destruction. Why? Because it’s not just, and human beings were made in the image of a just God. "
Source: July 11, 2016
Wives Love Your Husbands, Husbands Submit To Your Wives
by Jory Micah
1 Peter 3:7 Likewise, husbands, live with your wives in an understanding way, showing honor to the woman as the weaker vessel, since they are heirs with you[a] of the grace of life, so that your prayers may not be hindered.
https://www.gotquestions.org/men-women-equal.html

Weaker there does not mean lesser than a man. It recognizes the physical differences between strengths. Though women who give birth will tell you, there is nothing weak about us.

It is wrong to think there is gender inequality in the scriptures. There is not a less than the man model in marriage under God.
 
Aug 20, 2021
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Would you rephrase this please? "Covids a lie.but i would get the shot any way. "
Why would you get the Covid-19 vaccine, and irrevocably alter your body chemistry, if Covid is a lie?
we're not to fear angels our man but rather god.Irrevocably alter your body chemistry!That'a assumption on your part i assume.I suspect god will let us know when we need to know when not to take something.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,160
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John 13:34-35“So now I am giving you a new commandment: Love each other. Just as I have loved you, you should love each other. Your love for one another will prove to the world that you are my disciples. "

Ephesians 5:21 Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ ."
And then he goes on to tell wives to submit to their husbands, children to obey their parents, etc.

Galatians 3:28 “There is no longer Jew or Gentile, slave or free, male and female. For you are all one in Christ Jesus."
Mark 10:6-9
The context is related to inheriting the promise. This verse isn't telling men it's okay to have sex changes and be women or to tell women to get 'gay married' as lesbians. Paul goes on to tell wives to submit to husbands. He tells the circumcised not to seek to be uncircumcised and the uncircumcised not to seek to be circumcised. He tells slaves and masters how to treat each other. You draw conclusions from Paul's statement that he does not, conclusions inconsistent with his teachings.


“But at the beginning of creation God ‘made them male and female.’[a] 7 ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife,[b] 8 and the two will become one flesh.’[c] So they are no longer two, but one flesh. 9 Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”
This two shall be one flesh is based on a quote in Genesis. And the commands for wives to submit to their husbands was given AFTER that statement in Genesis. You are imagining a contradiction between two being one flesh and wives submitting to their husbands.

Is the church supposed to submit to Christ? Does Christ love the church?

[qutoe]
"Any theology that gives authority to men over women is not only unbiblical and wrong; it is a recipe for disunity, dysfunction, and destruction. Why? Because it’s not just, and human beings were made in the image of a just God. "
[/QUOTE]

Teaching that teaches wives not to submit to their husbands is unjust and is a root of a lot of the disunity, dysfunction, and destruction in society. Just look what has happened to marriage and family in the past 60 years or so. You are also promoting a teaching that could deprive married couples of experiencing the mystery of Christ and the church in Ephesians 5.

Also, I do not see anyone saying men, in general, have authority over women, in general. The issue is wives submitting to their own husbands, not other people's husbands.

You should ask yourself what is more important to you, following the teachings of the Bible or your feminist ideology.
 
Mar 4, 2020
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Typically, in the New Testament it is used for illegitimate desire.

You don't 'covet' your own steak. You could covet your neighbor's steak. You don't covet your own wife. You could covet your neighbors wife. Of course, doing so would be a sin.
I don't know if it's that simple.

We go shopping for a 'steak' that we desire, that does not belong to us yet, and do what we must to take possession of it. We always work toward earning things that belong to other people, so by just wanting anything we're technically coveting and lusting after various goods. Being employed is coveting money that belongs to someone else.

This same type of logic can be applied toward people as well. When a married person wants someone else who isn't their wife then they have committed adultery. At least that's how my mind understands all this.
 

Icedaisey

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
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And then he goes on to tell wives to submit to their husbands, children to obey their parents, etc.



The context is related to inheriting the promise. This verse isn't telling men it's okay to have sex changes and be women or to tell women to get 'gay married' as lesbians. Paul goes on to tell wives to submit to husbands. He tells the circumcised not to seek to be uncircumcised and the uncircumcised not to seek to be circumcised. He tells slaves and masters how to treat each other. You draw conclusions from Paul's statement that he does not, conclusions inconsistent with his teachings.




This two shall be one flesh is based on a quote in Genesis. And the commands for wives to submit to their husbands was given AFTER that statement in Genesis. You are imagining a contradiction between two being one flesh and wives submitting to their husbands.

Is the church supposed to submit to Christ? Does Christ love the church?

"Any theology that gives authority to men over women is not only unbiblical and wrong; it is a recipe for disunity, dysfunction, and destruction. Why? Because it’s not just, and human beings were made in the image of a just God. "
Teaching that teaches wives not to submit to their husbands is unjust and is a root of a lot of the disunity, dysfunction, and destruction in society. Just look what has happened to marriage and family in the past 60 years or so. You are also promoting a teaching that could deprive married couples of experiencing the mystery of Christ and the church in Ephesians 5.

Also, I do not see anyone saying men, in general, have authority over women, in general. The issue is wives submitting to their own husbands, not other people's husbands.

You should ask yourself what is more important to you, following the teachings of the Bible or your feminist ideology.
Someone accuses a woman of being a Feminist when she proves the God of scripture didn't create her to be a doormat.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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Someone accuses a woman of being a Feminist when she proves the God of scripture didn't create her to be a doormat.
I did not know you would have a problem with the term 'feminist' when I posted that.

But you haven't proven anything. You have tried to pit one passage of scripture against another when it is not reasonable to do so.

Submitting to authority does not make one a doormat. Are marines doormats? They have to submit to commanding officers. Do you submit to Christ? Do you think submission is evil?
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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I don't know if it's that simple.

We go shopping for a 'steak' that we desire, that does not belong to us yet, and do what we must to take possession of it. We always work toward earning things that belong to other people, so by just wanting anything we're technically coveting and lusting after various goods. Being employed is coveting money that belongs to someone else.

This same type of logic can be applied toward people as well. When a married person wants someone else who isn't their wife then they have committed adultery. At least that's how my mind understands all this.
I think you are overthinking it. I did have such thoughts as a young man, wondering how I could want to marry a woman without 'coveting' her, especially after reading the first part of the Shepherd of Hermas where Hermas thought a fellow-believer was beautiful and thought the man who had her as a wife would be happy, and the angel or shepherd character rebukes him for lust afterward.

But I think you are overthinking it.

This is the first example I could find that seemed reasonable of God telling Israelites to buy something
Deuteronomy 2
5 Do not contend with them, for I will not give you any of their land, no, not so much as for the sole of the foot to tread on, because I have given Mount Seir to Esau as a possession. 6 You shall purchase food from them with money, that you may eat, and you shall also buy water from them with money, that you may drink. 7 For the Lord your God has blessed you in all the work of your hands. He knows your going through this great wilderness. These forty years the Lord your God has been with you. You have lacked nothing.”’

God also told Israelites not to covet. If He tells them to buy food, and they do, doesn't that indicate that they could buy food while being obedient to the LORD?

I also think someone who is hungry can buy food that is 'on the market' without sinning. A young man could want to marry a young woman who is available-- not someone else's wife-- without sinning.

On the other hand, one might be able to covet/lust for his neighbors wife because she is kind and cooks really tasty biscuits without even thinking of sex.
 

Icedaisey

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
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I did not know you would have a problem with the term 'feminist' when I posted that.
I don't have a problem with the word. You appear to have a problem when a woman doesn't agree she's suppose to be a submissive in her marriage.

But you haven't proven anything. You have tried to pit one passage of scripture against another when it is not reasonable to do so.

Submitting to authority does not make one a doormat. Are marines doormats? They have to submit to commanding officers. Do you submit to Christ? Do you think submission is evil?
We're discussing "obedient women", and as pertains to our posts as that applies, or not, in marriage.