Obsession with Confession (1 John 1:9, sin confession)

[KennethC]

Kenneth, you and I can go around and around this same tree every time. Yes, I completely agree with what you just said. The only thing we disagree on is what constitutes those fruits. All a believer needs is the desire to change their behavior, and an acknowledgement that their sin really is sin. The Holy Spirit will do the rest and lead them to walk in the righteousness that already belongs to them. All they need do is surrender.

Yes I agree with you but even the Lord Jesus said by the fruits we will know an unbeliever from a believer in Him.
(Matthew 7:16)

If a unbeliever can look exactly like a believer then that statement by Jesus would be a lie, and we know He can not lie.

 

[KennethC]

The only fruit that we can discern is peoples doctrines. We lack the ability to see other peoples motives.

An unbeliever and a believer can give,serve,go to church,love others,do mission trips,praise Jesus,live morally..........but when He opens his mouth and says," I am doing this for my salvation or to maintain my salvation." we can judge that fruit/doctrine. Because we have His word that says salvation is by grace through faith.

That is not true that the only fruit we can discern is their doctrines.
Because the word of God clearly shows that those who use unedifying language or bad language toward others are not operating/walking in the Spirit as well.

Trying to say we do not know others motives is false because the way they speak to others clearly shows hatred or not even if they want to deny it.

Once again you throw out baseless allegations on others when they have said no such thing.

How many times does a person have to say works do not save nor do they maintain salvation, but they are proof of a true saving faith in the Lord Jesus Christ before it get through to you and others who want to make that untruthful claim ???

 

[Gr8grace]

That is just wrong to say to another believer in Christ, because following His teachings and commands are what we are told to do in the bible and also shows also the believer in Christ will uphold the 10 commandments as well.

You say an unbeliever can follow those commands as well, which is not true because the first two they can not.
To love the Lord our God with all our heart, soul, and mind and to not have any other god's before Him then can not keep.

Plus if they do not believe in God or the Lord Jesus then any good they do are dirty rags because they are only done for self, and not for the love of God.

Ken From your responses so far you don't know how to live the Christian way of life either.

Those ten commandments, or all those things Jesus told us to do are impossible if we don't how to live the Christian way of life.

What are the commands that the believer MUST follow, in order to follow all of Jesus Christs commands. We can't do it if we don't know how to live in the Christian way of life.

the believer is under 4 mandates. What are they?

 

[Willie-T]

Yes I agree with you but even the Lord Jesus said by the fruits we will know an unbeliever from a believer in Him.
(Matthew 7:16)

If a unbeliever can look exactly like a believer then that statement by Jesus would be a lie, and we know He can not lie.

Go back and read the verses above the single verse you posted. God was not telling us to look at our brothers to see if they measure up to some standard we have imposed upon others. Rather, He was saying that certain things will stick out like a sore thumb when people are trying to deliberately mislead others.

 

[Willie-T]

That is not true that the only fruit we can discern is their doctrines.
Because the word of God clearly shows that those who use unedifying language or bad language toward others are not operating/walking in the Spirit as well.

Trying to say we do not know others motives is false because the way they speak to others clearly shows hatred or not even if they want to deny it.

Once again you throw out baseless allegations on others when they have said no such thing.

How many times does a person have to say works do not save nor do they maintain salvation, but they are proof of a true saving faith in the Lord Jesus Christ before it get through to you and others who want to make that untruthful claim ???

Are you setting yourself up as being somehow "worthy" that others have to prove to you that they love Jesus according to how you decide to judge what they do?

 

[Gr8grace]

That is not true that the only fruit we can discern is their doctrines.
Because the word of God clearly shows that those who use unedifying language or bad language toward others are not operating/walking in the Spirit as well.

Trying to say we do not know others motives is false because the way they speak to others clearly shows hatred or not even if they want to deny it.

Once again you throw out baseless allegations on others when they have said no such thing.

How many times does a person have to say works do not save nor do they maintain salvation, but they are proof of a true saving faith in the Lord Jesus Christ before it get through to you and others who want to make that untruthful claim ???

You can say that till the cows come home for me. Your message screams works salvation. And I am not the only here that gets that from your posts.

You need to think about your communication of your message.

I see nothing but works salvation in your message. If that is not what you are saying, your doing a poor job trying to get your message out.

Many people profess Grace in a sentence. Then Go onto a 4 page dissertation of how faith as a noun is actually a verb that includes merit and deeds.

 

[Willie-T]

Who is speaking of sacrificing animals ???

The way the Lord brought was forgiveness of sins through His own blood and the standard to walk in love for all people.

In order to receive that remission of our sins through Him He gave clear instructions on what to do in order to receive that forgiveness. In that He said by faith we are to repent, get baptized, forgive others, keep our confession in Him, and live by showing love and mercy to others.

By doing this walking in love all the other commands will be upheld !!!

You are. We have done nothing but substitute one set of rule keeping for another. No, they are no longer animals that we dutifully kill, but they are revered and offered as atoning sacrifices just the same.

 

[Gr8grace]

From my sin nature.......maybe at the Bema seat grace believers will get to slap the religion out of believers who fell for it.

From my new creation......I pray they would come to His freedom.


But back on track Ben. I believe you are correct in that the believers conscience convicts/convinces us of our sin.

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. [15] But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

(Romans 14:5One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

[22] Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth. [23] And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

(Hebrews 5:14But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.


If we have 30 pieces of chocolate in front of us.if we start eating them at what point does it turn to gluttony?

 

[Willie-T]

You can say that till the cows come home for me. Your message screams works salvation. And I am not the only here that gets that from your posts.

You need to think about your communication of your message.

I see nothing but works salvation in your message. If that is not what you are saying, your doing a poor job trying to get your message out.

Many people profess Grace in a sentence. Then Go onto a 4 page dissertation of how faith as a noun is actually a verb that includes merit and deeds.

Wow! Well said.

 

[shotgunner]

From my sin nature.......maybe at the Bema seat grace believers will get to slap the religion out of believers who fell for it.

From my new creation......I pray they would come to His freedom.


But back on track Ben. I believe you are correct in that the believers conscience convicts/convinces us of our sin.

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. [15] But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

(Romans 14:5One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

[22] Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth. [23] And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

(Hebrews 5:14But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.


If we have 30 pieces of chocolate in front of us.if we start eating them at what point does it turn to gluttony?

If we have 30 pieces of chocolate in front of us.if we start eating them at what point does it turn to gluttony?

Of coarse the point at which you get more than me, then you sir would be a glutton. That's the problem with judging others by their works.

 

[BenFTW]

I see KennethC has joined us. Kenneth did you bother to read the original post? Lets stay on topic, I don't know how this became a topic of commandments and following such commands. A lot of you guys who say we are to follow all these commandments Jesus stated are in fact grasping onto what was said under Law and for people abiding under Law. He was revealing the true standard of the Law, that is perfection. Imagine, going so far as to say one should cut off limbs or pull out eyeballs so that they may enter Heaven an amputee rather than Hell whole.

Would any of you argue Jesus was saying that it was possible to keep all the Law by doing such a thing as amputating yourself? Rightly divide the Word, somethings the Lord said were prior to His death and resurrection which would change things drastically (especially in how we relate to the Lord and forgiveness).

 

[BarlyGurl]

If we have 30 pieces of chocolate in front of us.if we start eating them at what point does it turn to gluttony?

Of coarse the point at which you get more than me, then you sir would be a glutton. That's the problem with judging others by their works.

'SO help me here.... Are you saying that gluttony is only determined by what my view of excess beyond what I am willing to eat?

 

[ladylynn]

In James 2:8 it is called the Royal Law:
“If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well.”
This means that it is the highest of all the laws, which is the same point that Jesus made in Matthew 22. The greatest thing any of us can do is to love God and to love people. That is the number one thing that God has given us to do. Until this becomes the focus of our lives, we are not going to benefit from His love working in us, and we will give Satan a tremendous inroad.
The Bible says that offenses will come. If you live on this earth among people, someone is going to rub you the wrong way sooner or later. And, according to 2 Timothy 3:12, just because you are a Christian and identify with Jesus, some are going to hate you:
“Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.”
Most of the problems we have with people are the result of envy and strife. It might be our fault, their fault, or both, but strife is still the result. James 3:16 states:
“For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.”
People often think of jealousy and envy as the same thing, but they are not. Jealousy desires what someone else has. But envy, according to the dictionary, is not just jealousy. It is jealousy with malice, with intent to hurt or bring another person down. Envy means you are bitter and angry; strife is when you vent that bitterness and anger.
James continues by saying that with those two things come confusion and every evil work. If God is not the author of confusion that means Satan is. So you could say that where envy and strife are found, you will also find Satan and all his evil works. Not some, butevery evil work.
So, how do you deal with strife or other problems in relationships? First, evaluate the source. It is always one of four: It could be your fault, the other person’s fault, or both of you may be at fault. The fourth source occurs less often and is not the result of strife: God may want you to end a relationship that is hindering your future.
Most people do not want to accept personal responsibility. It’s much easier just to point a finger at someone else. The danger with this is that you can develop a victim mentality. You begin to believe that the reason you act the way you do is because of what other people have done to you. You don’t believe it is ever your fault. Always begin by looking at yourself first.
Often the problem is only in your mind and doesn’t actually exist. It is the result of judging the motives behind the actions of others. You jump to conclusions and take offense based on speculations. One of the qualifications of a minister is that he is sober minded. That means he is void of speculative imaginations. By assuming people’s motives are good, most offenses will never develop.
There is a time and place to discern and judge the motives of others, but it must be done properly. (another topic for another time)
But, what if it’s the other person’s fault? No matter what they have done, you have a choice in your response. You have 100 percent authority over yourself. You can start walking in love toward another person anytime you decide to. Paul said, “I die daily.” And, in 2 Corinthians 4:17, he stated:
“For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory.”
I won’t list them here, but Paul’s light afflictions weren’t exactly light. They were just light in comparison to the glory he would experience in eternity. If we compared all the hurtful things people have done to us to what Jesus suffered for our sake, our suffering becomes insignificant. It’s all a matter of perspective; Paul understood that.
Most of the time broken relationships are the fault of both the people involved. That is especially true in marriage. No man has ever loved his wife the way Christ loves the church, and no woman has ever honored her husband the way the church is to honor God. The key to resolving problems in all relationships begins with forgiveness.
“Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.” (Matt. 18:21-22)
“Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him. And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.” (Luke 17:3-4)
No one is going to sin against you 490 times in one day! What Jesus is saying is that if a person humbles himself and asks for forgiveness, then forgive him. Forgiveness is the most powerful weapon of all in ending strife and restoring relationships.




I like the way Andrew Wommack puts this here in his Bible commentary.

 

[Willie-T]

'SO help me here.... Are you saying that gluttony is only determined by what my view of excess beyond what I am willing to eat?

Most any criticism of others is determined largely by our own views and what we, personally, see as excess beyond our own standards.... no matter how hard we struggle to locate verses we try to claim prove our position.

 

[shotgunner]

Most any criticism of others is determined largely by our own views and what we, personally, see as excess beyond our own standards.... no matter how hard we struggle to locate verses we try to claim prove our position.

Bingo!

BarlyGurl, that's exactly what I meant by my gluttony comment.

Willie, I appreciate you!

 

[Gr8grace]

'SO help me here.... Are you saying that gluttony is only determined by what my view of excess beyond what I am willing to eat?

Most of us are willing to eat all 30 pieces. for one person 1 piece may be gluttony. For the next, 10 pieces. Some may eat all of them and not be a glutton.

It is for each individual to make up their own mind. I can't call you a glutton for eating ten, when my stopping point is 2.

 

[Gr8grace]

Most any criticism of others is determined largely by our own views and what we, personally, see as excess beyond our own standards.... no matter how hard we struggle to locate verses we try to claim prove our position.

Yup..........sums it up real nice Willie.

 

[BarlyGurl]

Bingo!

BarlyGurl, that's exactly what I meant by my gluttony comment.

Willie, I appreciate you!

Okay Do I get a point for getting it?? Now my next question is... how does this methodology apply to adultery?

 

[Willie-T]

Okay Do I get a point for getting it?? Now my next question is... how does this methodology apply to adultery?

Well, the first thing we need to do is be certain OUR standards match those of Scripture.

If the Bible says "Don't do it.", we can't override that by saying you shouldn't do it more than three times each month.

 

[shotgunner]

Well, the first thing we need to do is be certain OUR standards match those of Scripture.

If the Bible says "Don't do it.", we can't override that by saying you shouldn't do it more than three times each month.

Exactly! We were talking about judging others by their fruits.The more refined point of the chocolate analogy is that what I consider fruits may not look at all like what God considers fruits. Possibly God can even see fruits I can't see. Here is an example that might shed some light.
James 2:25King James Version (KJV)[SUP]25 [/SUP]Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

How many of us would have considered her works Godly fruits? Might we possibly have even judged her a traitor by our standards?