Obsession with Confession (1 John 1:9, sin confession)

[MsLimpet]

No, thats why I am asking for someone to give me just one verse to show that He does. I am open to someone showing me that He does, but am fairly confident that such a verse doesn't exist. The go to is John 16:8 but as has been shown, that is to the unbelieving world who do not believe in Jesus Christ.

PS: Your conscience and the accuser of the brethren are the sources of such conviction, though the latter more towards condemnation.

Please do not take offense to this, it is easy to do when we do not know each other and we can misinterpret a text. But, I think you are being legalistic regarding John 16:8.

The three areas in which the Holy Spirit would convict are sin, righteousness and judgment. To convict one of sin is to bring to one's consciousness an awareness of the tragedy which it brings, of righteousness by showing that only those who work it are accepted of God (Acts 10:34, 35), and of judgment by pointing out that it will bring condemnation to all who do not turn in penitence to the Saviour. The Holy Spirit would convict of sin "because they [the rebellious world] believe not on Me," the basic cause of sin, and the root of all rebellion against God.

John 16:13 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

 

[BenFTW]

Please do not take offense to this, it is easy to do when we do not know each other and we can misinterpret a text. But, I think you are being legalistic regarding John 16:8.

The three areas in which the Holy Spirit would convict are sin, righteousness and judgment. To convict one of sin is to bring to one's consciousness an awareness of the tragedy which it brings, of righteousness by showing that only those who work it are accepted of God (Acts 10:34, 35), and of judgment by pointing out that it will bring condemnation to all who do not turn in penitence to the Saviour. The Holy Spirit would convict of sin "because they [the rebellious world] believe not on Me," the basic cause of sin, and the root of all rebellion against God.

Not a problem, if you look at the following verses of John 16:8 Jesus actually explains exactly what he means. We don't even have to guess. Lets take a look...

John 16:8-11King James Version (KJV)

8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

Notice the three explanations. Look at judgement, most people would jump to the assumption that the Holy Spirit is convicting them of the reality of Hell and they better repent or else. However, that isn't what Jesus says he meant. He says of judgement because the prince of this world is judged. The devil has been defeated and Christ is victorious. People will read into these verses and not even realize that Jesus clarified exactly what he meant.

So while people have these preconceived notions, it clearly says who the Holy Spirit is convicting (and its not us) and exactly what He is convicting them of.

 

[Willie-T]

I am thinking your reading sarcasm and don't know it.

I think you may be reading Willie wrong on this one Brother.

And this just frustrates the SNOT out of me................Willie unsaved? Really? This is one area, as believers we had better walk softly!

Forgive him.... he doesn't know what he is doing.

 

[MsLimpet]

Not a problem, if you look at the following verses of John 16:8 Jesus actually explains exactly what he means. We don't even have to guess. Lets take a look...

John 16:8-11King James Version (KJV)

8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

Notice the three explanations. Look at judgement, most people would jump to the assumption that the Holy Spirit is convicting them of the reality of Hell and they better repent or else. However, that isn't what Jesus says he meant. He says of judgement because the prince of this world is judged. The devil has been defeated and Christ is victorious. People will read into these verses and not even realize that Jesus clarified exactly what he meant.

So while people have these preconceived notions, it clearly says who the Holy Spirit is convicting (and its not us) and exactly what He is convicting them of.

Then what do you think convicts us of sin?

 

[Willie-T]

So Willie-T if i understand you correctly, you are teaching Salvation by Works?

You do know Willie-T that Salvation is ONLY by Grace and Faith?

Ephesians 2:8-9
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
[SUP]9 [/SUP] not of works, lest anyone should boast.

We do NOT prove anything by trying to convince Jesus Christ that we are sorry for our sins. You do know Willie-T that God knows your thoughts? So why would we HAVE to convince Him of anything?

You really need to read the Scripture and get a better understanding of who God is!

God forgives us for our sins BECAUSE God Loves us! Not because we have CONVINCED Him we are sorry!

Do you even walk with God Willie-T?

Why are you trying to deceive those who walk with God Willie-T?

Repent and accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior Willie-T.

Ya think maybe you have been trying to find dragons to slay for so long, that now you can't even recognize a windmill when you see one?

 

[Willie-T]

OH GACKK!! This is all about YOU and SIN. All about how SIN does this and YOU do that and SIN brings DEATH and YOU are GUILTY and that Jesus DIDN'T teach about forgiveness.,how YOU should look at YOU and YOUR heart and YOUR sorrow and YOUR repentance and YOUR rebellion and YOUR unworthiness and YOUR pleading and YOUR works and YOUR forsaking and YOUR brokeness and YOUR KNOWING ENGAGEMENT OF EVILLLLLLLLLLLLL....

Notice.... This does not magnify Jesus and what He did on the Cross. that post of skinsky's magnifies sin and guilt and US.
Why did Jesus come? To just kind of give us a kick start to salvation??? NO He gave us full Salvation and free Salvation.
Look to Jesus not your self. If you have received Christ, walk in Him now. Don't listen to people who want to pull you back under the Law that Jesus died to free you from. Law came by Moses., but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

You GO, Girl!

 

[sydlit]

Im so sorry, I didn't mean to cause brothers and sisters to be argueing over my posting about my own lack of understanding. Some of my confusion comes when someone posts what seems to be a condemning attack, and some one else who I've valued, either their opinions or friendship, adds a 'like'. And im thinking, Are they liking the fact that I just got blindsided?! Why are they liking a post thats either kind of vicious, or doctrinally way off from what I've heard them espouse in the past? And then, because im still fairly new at this, less than 2 months, and this tablet goes goofy, (the font will shrink tiny, like 'someone else' is controlling it, so I try to adjust settings and dont know what effect its having on my posts) so when I finally post a reply, theres 5 more differing opinions, and I wanna yell What?! But, seriously, thank you from my heart to those here who've helped me and prayed for me in sincerity, you know who you are and I'm very grateful for you, even if I don't always know how to show it. Anyway, I think I expressed to someone early on that this could wind up being a great thread for iron-sharpening and growth in Jesus Christ. Didn't know I'd be stuck in the middle with...
(my new word for the day, 'Espouse', as in 'I needa help. Please,Lord,Espouse'.)

 

[Gr8grace]

Ya think maybe you have been trying to find dragons to slay for so long, that now you can't even recognize a windmill when you see one?

Thats funny stuff.

And I am preeeettttyyy sure I know exactly what you mean. The slaying dragons thread slowed down.

 

[BenFTW]

Then what do you think convicts us of sin?

Two things. Our very own conscience, and the accuser of the brethren. Our conscience because God wrote His laws upon our hearts, even unbelievers have a conscience. All humanity has a conscience, but of course people go against their conscience. Some would argue people have them seared and thats why there is no standard of morality for them, it is all subjective. People have an inherent sense of right and wrong, though people (who dont believe the bible) would associate that with some type of social evolutionary reason (whats best for survival).

Now on to the second answer, the accuser of the brethren. Well, the devil doesn't want you to know who you are in Christ and to have confidence towards God. So he attacks with condemnation and guilt so as to deter you from the Lord's presence. The veil is broken but he, as with legalists, would have it sown back up. Let me show you a verse about the disarming of principalities and powers.

Colossians 2:14-15New King James Version (NKJV)

14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.

Notice that the disarming of the enemy was due to the Law being nailed to the cross? So as the accuser of the brethren, what can't he do now? He can't point to our falling short of the glory of God, and condemn us, distancing us from God as Jesus fulfilled the Law and has imputed us with His righteousness. We don't let our hearts condemn us and we can have confidence towards God because of this gift of no condemnation. The enemy may show us our shortcomings but we rest in the grace of God and the finished work of Jesus, knowing fully we may come boldly into His presence.

This site does a little examination of some of the words in the text to make a point in the greek: Colossians 2:15 - Andrew Wommack Ministries

 

[Willie-T]

Please clarify, is this directed at me? Because after reading willies post 346, combined with this, I really feel like crap. No one knows the things ive been thru, especially here, and I NEVER would think I could claim a right to earn my own salvation. What Jesus went thru to pay for my sins is a love and devotion I can never understand, it hurts in a way I cant describe, and to accuse me of trying to earn His love feels like the same form of bullying ive gotten most of my life. I dont know what you mean by screaming at God, I know of one time I consciously did that and im sure you werent there, and I hurt every time I think I could be so brazen toward my creator, but I was really hurting, and was drunken mad that my only known friend at the time, my best buddy, died. I wont question your motive, I know some try the 'older-brother-well-meaning-bully' tactic, to try to help (im from philly, and the youngest sibling, BELIEVE me, I know that tactic), but im not sure why yous are doing this. Jesus was the oldest of at least 7, but when one of them was hurting, im guessing He came alongside them, not push them out. But what do I know, I seem to be getting everything else wrong anyway. I'll try to learn from what's been said, but ive admitted my lack, so expectations aren't soaring high right now. God bless yous, and Hallelujah anyhow.

Good. Despite some hurt feelings, I at least got your attention.

Listen, you are not the only one to go through exactly what you described in that earlier post. I imagine most of us have spent our hours, sobbing in bed over the things we've done. But, so what? All those hours did were to release some guilt and tension.

The real "trick" to this "following Jesus" if to finally understanding it all boils down to BELIEVING.... and believing the right things. Remember what the Bible said about a "perverse generation looking for signs?" That wasn't talking about a bunch of perverts. That was describing a whole generation whose THINKING was all screwed-up. They just couldn't imaging actually believing Jesus meant what He said when He told us we were saved because of HIM, not something we felt, or some level of performance we reached.

 

[Willie-T]

PeacefulWarrior answered you. It actually goes on to explain why the Holy Spirit convicts the world of sin and Jesus says, "because they believe not on Me." Do you believe in Jesus? Then this verse doesn't apply to you as a believer.

Man, I can't believe people have been shown this over, and over, and over, and over again, yet they still want to feel themselves some "conviction"...... for whatever reason.

 

[Gr8grace]

Im so sorry, I didn't mean to cause brothers and sisters to be argueing over my posting about my own lack of understanding. Some of my confusion comes when someone posts what seems to be a condemning attack, and some one else who I've valued, either their opinions or friendship, adds a 'like'. And im thinking, Are they liking the fact that I just got blindsided?! Why are they liking a post thats either kind of vicious, or doctrinally way off from what I've heard them espouse in the past? And then, because im still fairly new at this, less than 2 months, and this tablet goes goofy, (the font will shrink tiny, like 'someone else' is controlling it, so I try to adjust settings and dont know what effect its having on my posts) so when I finally post a reply, theres 5 more differing opinions, and I wanna yell What?! But, seriously, thank you from my heart to those here who've helped me and prayed for me in sincerity, you know who you are and I'm very grateful for you, even if I don't always know how to show it. Anyway, I think I expressed to someone early on that this could wind up being a great thread for iron-sharpening and growth in Jesus Christ. Didn't know I'd be stuck in the middle with...
(my new word for the day, 'Espouse', as in 'I needa help. Please,Lord,Espouse'.)

If you go back, I think you will find that all the negative posts were not about you.

Someone slipped in and tried to unsave another brother, and there were negative posts(that are actually positive) to him.

And there were others who wanted to make you Mourn over your sin, and condemn you for your sin. And Grace believers were refuting them.

I think you got some of those posts mixed up as being about you.

Sometimes people "like" posts to get their attention for a response. Or just to let someone know they read their post.

Rest in no condemnation. Their is no condemnation in Christ. His Grace is true freedom.

 

[Willie-T]

Thats funny stuff.

And I am preeeettttyyy sure I know exactly what you mean. The slaying dragons thread slowed down.

I was talking about good ol' Don Q.

 

[Willie-T]

No, Sydlit....... No condemnation. Even if you dismiss everything I have tried to say. It really ain't no biggie. God will soon send someone else your way with the same message.... only maybe delivered a lot better than know how to do.

 

[Mec99]

Actually its not just about believing, its also about doing.

John 14:15
[SUP]15 [/SUP] "If you love Me, keep My commandments.

John 14:21
[SUP]21 [/SUP] He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him."

John 15:10
[SUP]10 [/SUP] If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.

1 John 2:3-6
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

We are to walk with Jesus Christ and keep His Commandments. Its more than just believing in Jesus Christ. Even Satan believes in Jesus Christ.

 

[Willie-T]

I challenge anyone to show me one scripture that says the Holy Spirit convicts the believer of sin. Just one.

Hint: John 16:8 doesn't work.

No bet here. It took years, but I finally know better.

 

[Mec99]

John 16:5-11
[SUP]5 [/SUP] "But now I go away to Him who sent Me, and none of you asks Me, 'Where are You going?'
[SUP]6 [/SUP] But because I have said these things to you, sorrow has filled your heart.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
[SUP]9 [/SUP] of sin, because they do not believe in Me;
[SUP]10 [/SUP] of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more;
[SUP]11 [/SUP] of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.

The Holy Spirit DOES convict the World of SIN and Righteousness!

 

[KennethC]

Not a problem, if you look at the following verses of John 16:8 Jesus actually explains exactly what he means. We don't even have to guess. Lets take a look...

John 16:8-11King James Version (KJV)

8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

Notice the three explanations. Look at judgement, most people would jump to the assumption that the Holy Spirit is convicting them of the reality of Hell and they better repent or else. However, that isn't what Jesus says he meant. He says of judgement because the prince of this world is judged. The devil has been defeated and Christ is victorious. People will read into these verses and not even realize that Jesus clarified exactly what he meant.

So while people have these preconceived notions, it clearly says who the Holy Spirit is convicting (and its not us) and exactly what He is convicting them of.

Then how do you explain Hebrews 12:5-9 as this passage is spoken to believers ???


There it says the Lord will chastise those of us who are His when we sin and He does this to correct us, so how is this chastising done? It is done through the Holy Spirit who will convict us when we have done wrong and guide us to turn away from what we did.

 

[Willie-T]

Actually its not just about believing, its also about doing.

John 14:15
[SUP]15 [/SUP] "If you love Me, keep My commandments.

John 14:21
[SUP]21 [/SUP] He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him."

John 15:10
[SUP]10 [/SUP] If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.

1 John 2:3-6
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

We are to walk with Jesus Christ and keep His Commandments. Its more than just believing in Jesus Christ. Even Satan believes in Jesus Christ.

Oh for Heaven's sake! What's it gonna take?

Do you have to go around trying to remember to do right, in order to get your own parents to love you? (Or your wife?) (Or your kids?) Or do you just AUTOMATICALLY and INSTINCTIVELY avoid things that will bring them shame because you love them?

 

[VioletReigns]

I was talking about good ol' Don Q.

View attachment 133782

Every time I hear that name (Don Quixote) I think of the movie, "The Man of La Mancha" and Peter O'Toole singing (it's really Simon Gilbert's voice), "The Impossible Dream." I.LUV.THAT.SONG! *sigh*