Oh goody another OSAS thread!

[Ralph-]

Don't forget if they sin willfully, and this means even one TIME... Then they have no more sacrifice for their sins. Sigh! Drive by bible thumpin's what I call that. One scripture bangers out of context

No, it's willfully sinning in unbelief that will condemn the (ex) believer.

For the believer all his sins are covered by the blood. That's why we are exhorted to keep believing. The blood does not cover the sin of the ex-believer who departs from the covering of the blood in unbelief and a willful return to the world. Jesus's sacrifice does not remain for that sin.

 

[Epiales]

No, it's willfully sinning in unbelief that will condemn the (ex) believer.

For the believer all his sins are covered by the blood. That's why we are exhorted to keep believing. The blood does not cover the sin of the ex-believer who departs from the covering of the blood in unbelief and a willful return to the world. Jesus's sacrifice does not remain for that sin.

An ex believer sounds just as strange as my ex father lol. Yeah, that doesn't work

 

[PennEd]

That's not really what John 6:39 says. It says that it's not the father's will that any who come to Christ perish. It says nothing about GOD pre-empting man's will.

John 10:28 can be qualified with the condition that no one will be able to pluck any believer out of GOD's hand who is believing. Same thing applies to Romans 8:38-39.

Talk about plucking, cherry picking, and twisting?!!! My goodness.

Did you have ANY say or "will" in your physical birth? Well here's what God says about our Spiritual Birth, the NEW creation we ARE:

John 1:12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the [e]right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 WHO WERE BORN, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, NOR OF THE WILL OF MAN, BUT OF GOD.

Also, why have you refused to answer what SEALED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT means to you? I realize us being SEALED by the Holy Spirit is very inconvenient to your doctrine that says a born again child of God can do something to be cast into hell, but shouldn't your reluctance to answer mean that maybe you should reevaluate your doctrine?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I've been on both sides of the fence too. I felt just that way. I could never EVER meet the standards of what the Word wants us to do. But praise Him He led me in the right direction and I now have peace through Christ; whom is my salvation. Forever salvation! He changes me daily as I heed and listen to the Spirit, and I know He will never leave me nor forsake me.

That doesn't describe my experience at all. I DO meet the standard by grace through faith. If something's not right in my walk, I trust him to let me know.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

An ex believer sounds just as strange as my ex father lol. Yeah, that doesn't work

right?


when you hear something that is true

you believe it

then when it is followed by overwhelming proof (in this case a transformation....and a relationship)

for someone to choose

oh i dont believe this anymore

shows no transformation
no relationship



(and the bible makes it clear we are not of them who fall away and those who go out from us were never of us... those who say Lord Lord and are rejected He NEVER knew.... its clear as day )

 

[Epiales]

That doesn't describe my experience at all. I DO meet the standard by grace through faith. If something's not right in my walk, I trust him to let me know.

That doesn't describe my experience at all. I DO meet the standard by grace through faith. If something's not right in my walk, I trust him to let me know.

Yeah, my understanding and reasoning for thinking I did not meet the standards was become of my misunderstanding of scripture. I completely understand that now, can never meet the standard, but only through faith in Him and His grace given to me. And yup, if I'm doing something wrong, the Spirit lets me know immediately.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Talk about plucking, cherry picking, and twisting?!!! My goodness.

Did you have ANY say or "will" in your physical birth? Well here's what God says about our Spiritual Birth, the NEW creation we ARE:

John 1:12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the [e]right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 WHO WERE BORN, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, NOR OF THE WILL OF MAN, BUT OF GOD.

Also, why have you refused to answer what SEALED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT means to you? I realize us being SEALED by the Holy Spirit is very inconvenient to your doctrine that says a born again child of God can do something to be cast into hell, but shouldn't your reluctance to answer mean that maybe you should reevaluate your doctrine?

IMO you think the new birth saves you. I don't see how that's different than the gnostics believing their spiritual nature saved them.

I've been ignoring your question about being sealed because it's so dumb and not relevant. GOD can unseal what he seals.

 

[Epiales]

right?


when you hear something that is true

you believe it

then when it is followed by overwhelming proof (in this case a transformation....and a relationship)

for someone to choose

oh i dont believe this anymore

shows no transformation
no relationship



(and the bible makes it clear we are not of them who fall away and those who go out from us were never of us... those who say Lord Lord and are rejected He NEVER knew.... its clear as day )

yeah, we can NOT believe in oxygen all we wan't, but it's always there lol. Not really the best example to describe God, but the same effect. You CANNOT stop believing in Oxygen because you already believe in it and you KNOW it is there. Same with salvation and God

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Yeah, my understanding and reasoning for thinking I did not meet the standards was become of my misunderstanding of scripture. I completely understand that now, can never meet the standard, but only through faith in Him and His grace given to me. And yup, if I'm doing something wrong, the Spirit lets me know immediately.

Yup He also chastens His own...
not those who are doing well

but those who aren't

you don't punish your child when he is doing good

you punish them when they aren't


(but they are still your children)

 

[Epiales]

Yup He also chastens His own...
not those who are doing well

but those who aren't

you don't punish your child when he is doing good

you punish them when they aren't

Yup, and you can change your name, move to the mountains, dye your hair, and swear they are not your father, but they will always be, and can always be proven. I've noticed that many aspects of God are related to earthly fathers and their relationships with their children as well.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Yup, and you can change your name, move to the mountains, dye your hair, and swear they are not your father, but they will always be, and can always be proven. I've noticed that many aspects of God are related to earthly fathers and their relationships with their children as well.

God did a great job designing things in a way that a simple people like us can see the truth... with Him leading us of course


He deserves all the glory

not just a bit at first
but the rest goes to us for keeping ourselfs saved

thats ridiculous

 

[Epiales]

IMO you think the new birth saves you. I don't see how that's different than the gnostics believing their spiritual nature saved them.

I've been ignoring your question about being sealed because it's so dumb and not relevant. GOD can unseal what he seals.

Our new nature is the RESULT of what Christ did. Of course the new nature cannot save you. It's Christ and Christ alone. Unless u're referring to another post, I saw nowhere where he said the new nature saved anyone

 

[PennEd]

IMO you think the new birth saves you. I don't see how that's different than the gnostics believing their spiritual nature saved them.

I've been ignoring your question about being sealed because it's so dumb and not relevant. GOD can unseal what he seals.

1st off, you are so hung up Gnosticism, you are virtually blinded to truth. Second off, the insult that I think i'm saved by ANYTHING but the blood of Jesus Christ, I think shows a desperation on your part.

But at least you have finally come out and said that God will "unseal" and eternally kill one of His born again Children. Simply incredible to assign such a thing to our Lord.

 

[notuptome]

1st off, you are so hung up Gnosticism, you are virtually blinded to truth. Second off, the insult that I think i'm saved by ANYTHING but the blood of Jesus Christ, I think shows a desperation on your part.

But at least you have finally come out and said that God will "unseal" and eternally kill one of His born again Children. Simply incredible to assign such a thing to our Lord.

Does not sound like Jehovah God to unseal that which He has sealed.

1John 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Epiales]

God did a great job designing things in a way that a simple people like us can see the truth... with Him leading us of course


He deserves all the glory

not just a bit at first
but the rest goes to us for keeping ourselfs saved

thats ridiculous

It really is. I see so many here have posted why do people continue to keep going over and over and over about the same thing. I belive it's important because it's Christ alone that saves. Anything JESUS PLUS is not biblical and makes me worry for those that believe this. I never question anyone salvation, unless I know for a fact they do not believe in God, but sometimes I have to wonder if people that can lose their salvation have really grasped the Gospel Christ gave us. I mean, what if they die on a day that they sin too much? Will they go to heaven? B/C as your faith is, so be it unto you. If their faith says they can sin their way out of grace, then I don't know. I'm not referring to anyone or saying that is what it happening, I"m just saying that I think about these things.

This is one reason that eternal security is so heavy on my heart to teach and preach. I have studied for years and only wish for people to be set free from their self righteousness and accept the righteousness of God. I have been on both sides of the fence and was miserable when I thought I could sin my way out of grace. A CONSTANT struggle in my flesh to prove myself to God. I had to be righteous in and of myself or I was in fear of God not loving me anymore.

Rom_10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

I really pray in my heart that if they believe in Christ then they are saved and will enter into the Kingdom. But I can help try and lead them to an eternal salvational freedom, not of works lest anyone should boast. It's like my calling to bring people to the light. I know I can't change some peoples minds, but even if ONE person reads through these threads and gets ONE thing from my posts, then I feel I have accomplished something.

And before you all reply with, "How dare you say I'm not saved if I think I can lose my salvation"... I'm not saying that. I'm saying I don't know. I hope you are!

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Our new nature is the RESULT of what Christ did. Of course the new nature cannot save you. It's Christ and Christ alone. Unless u're referring to another post, I saw nowhere where he said the new nature saved anyone

IMO he implies it all of the time because those are the main points of his arguments. Born can't become unborn, sealed can't become unsealed, eternal life can't be lost because it's eternal, a son can't not be a son, etc., etc. (Some of these he may not have said specifically, but they're all the same thing conceptually)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

IMO you think the new birth saves you. I don't see how that's different than the gnostics believing their spiritual nature saved them.

I've been ignoring your question about being sealed because it's so dumb and not relevant. GOD can unseal what he seals.

Thats the problem, you have to many opinions which are not founded on truth.

Our new birth is the result of our salvation, if we were not saved we would be dead in our sin.

You have to get off this gnostic trip you have been on, it leads you astray

 

[PS]

Yup, and you can change your name, move to the mountains, dye your hair, and swear they are not your father, but they will always be, and can always be proven. I've noticed that many aspects of God are related to earthly fathers and their relationships with their children as well.

Disowning your father means (a) you are lying and (b) you want nothing to do with him. You have broken off the relationship.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Disowning your father means (a) you are lying and (b) you want nothing to do with him. You have broken off the relationship.

ah so you believe man has the power to break what God has sealed?


and anyone who wants nothing to do with a Just and Perfect and Loving and Powerful and Forgiving and Giving and patient Father who is God

doesnt know Him

they have not recieved a new heart

or a quickened spirit

He wouldnt disown His child He promised to in no wise cast out

and a man isnt going to break what God has sealed

 

[Epiales]

IMO he implies it all of the time because those are the main points of his arguments. Born can't become unborn, sealed can't become unsealed, eternal life can't be lost because it's eternal, a son can't not be a son, etc., etc. (Some of these he may not have said specifically, but they're all the same thing conceptually)

Well he is right in that context. How can you Un"son" yourself from your father? You can't. And God cannot "unseal" ANYTHING because then He would be a liar. Could He? Of course, He can do anything except LIE.. so that blows that theory out of the water. What He has sealed, He WILL NEVER unseal. If so, then He's a liar. No need for me to post the scriptures, we all know them. Ma lies... Man throws you away... Man will refuse you... But we cannot relate God to man; He is NOTHING like man. But so many people want to relate God to man because of what man does and who they are. It's really sad, because God is so much more than man. How can we even put ourselves in the same category as Him? But isn't that what we do when we say that we have something to do with what He did? How? That's one reason why I think God created man LAST... because somehow, some way, man would have tried to take credit for creation. So God created it LAST so that it would not be possible for man to do so.

Can the "incorruptable" be corrupted?

If Salvation is lost, then how many times can we get resaved? Does this mean we gotta keep getting saved and putting Christ back on the cross?

If God's seed "remain' IN YOU, then does He send that seed to hell when He puts you there.

Too many scriptures that speak of our security in Christ Jesus. WAY MORE than the few that people use to try and disprove it. I bet there's 100's of scriptures based on what.. 20 or so that people misunderstand? Usually, when 100 people are saying one thing and you're the one saying it's something else... we might need to re evaluate our way of thinking.

Unfortunately most don't do this because they don't want to yield to their flesh. Sigh!