ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED, HYPER GRACE, ETERNAL SECURITY = FALSE DOCTRINE PROVEN!

[notuptome]

So the Christians who have been in heaven with Christ, come back with him. They then go six foot under into their graves to pick up their new body, then return to meet the Lord in the air?

I could ask why their new body is waiting in their coffin, but I will pass on that

Our spirit/soul goes to be with Christ the moment we die physically. Our physical body returns to the dust from which it was formed. Since no corruption can enter into the presence of God our old body must be changed into a new and glorified body.

From your perspective the dust in the coffin must be changed as only God can do. Those of us who are alive must shed the body of flesh and put on the new body Christ has for us.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

1Cor 15:51 ¶ Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[kathryn]

Our spirit/soul goes to be with Christ the moment we die physically. Our physical body returns to the dust from which it was formed. Since no corruption can enter into the presence of God our old body must be changed into a new and glorified body.

From your perspective the dust in the coffin must be changed as only God can do. Those of us who are alive must shed the body of flesh and put on the new body Christ has for us.

r

You said the Christians in Heaven returned with Christ to come into their new body. They rose first(from the grave as they were six feet under. Why would Christians who have dwelt in Heaven need to go into their coffins, unless it was to collect their new bodies according to what you wrote.

I then queried why their supernatural bodies was awaiting them in their coffins according to your post, that is all

 

[kathryn]

]So...the person that has been in the flesh will "attain heaven" then.....which is what happened to the slanderer and maligning Christian in our example.....thanks for your answer..[/B]

!

You need to start viewing this subject not from the question, of do good works enable you to enter heaven, to the need to stress following after the holy Spirit. Move on from first base as it were.

It is no more acceptable to slander or malign others as to be full of pride, boasting that only a select few understand the truth and everyone else needs to come to the knowledge they have.
Likewise, if a person can never answer any questions put to them, that shows they do not have rounded knowledge of the faith, but limited knowledge due to a select part of it. That is not slandering or maligning, just an honest observation

 

[notuptome]

You said the Christians in Heaven returned with Christ to come into their new body. They rose first(from the grave as they were six feet under. Why would Christians who have dwelt in Heaven need to go into their coffins, unless it was to collect their new bodies according to what you wrote.

I then queried why their supernatural bodies was awaiting them in their coffins according to your post, that is all

The rotting corpse in the coffin is changed by the power of God into a new and glorious body made like Christ's body. It is the redemption of the body which is promised in the bodily resurrection of Christ Himself.

To the best of my knowledge no one has ever dug up a coffin and found a glorified body lying therein. If you try I'm sure you can figure out the mechanics of all this. If not just trust Christ to do that which seems impossible to men.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Utah]

You don't answer many questions put to you do you.

Holy cow! Of all people to write such a statement. We're still waiting for you to name one Christian who loves God with all their heart, mind and soul who routinely murders, rapes and pillages. But I digress, you'd rather throw stones while living in your glass house. Carry on.

 

[Matt210]

Let's go back to the original premise in post #1 referring to the once saved, always saved concept. I ask anyone here to answer this question.

If I declare Jesus Christ to be my savior and become saved, then start to murder, rape, and pillage the good folks of (I'm trying to think of a random city, how about Tokyo Japan) Tokyo, am I still assured of my salvation?

 

[kathryn]

Holy cow! Of all people to write such a statement. We're still waiting for you to name one Christian who loves God with all their heart, mind and soul who routinely murders, rapes and pillages. But I digress, you'd rather throw stones while living in your glass house. Carry on.

I cannot understand why you keep asking this question, for it shows your contradiction. For you believe if a person routinely rapes, murders and pillages they are still entitled to attain heaven.
I have previously told you no one I know routinely doss those things who professes to be saved. But you believe they can do them and remain saved

I noticed yesterday you started to distort what I had written. People do that when they cannot scripturally defend their position

 

[Matt210]

I don't like using radical examples, and I apologize if this offends anyone. I do this in the hope of catching the attention of some of you.

Adolph Hitler attempted to eradicate from the face of the planet: Jews, Catholics, non-white people that don't have blonde hair, Muslims, and many others. He accepted the Lord as his personal savior, does this give him a free pass to heaven?

 

[tourist]

I don't like using radical examples, and I apologize if this offends anyone. I do this in the hope of catching the attention of some of you.

Adolph Hitler attempted to eradicate from the face of the planet: Jews, Catholics, non-white people that don't have blonde hair, Muslims, and many others. He accepted the Lord as his personal savior, does this give him a free pass to heaven?

It does not appear that he actually did this. Perhaps he will come back again one day and this time no more Mr. Nice Guy.

 

[royalscot]

let get to the front of the matter, using one bible verse, dose not explain believing in.
editing out history or time, shows you miss how or why change was made.

this is not a religion, your defending.
first thing to note, in the beginning god made, etc

the bible is the basic system is to show,there is a god, and believing in a god. (having been wrote, about by different writers. of the different books of the bible.)

for example
some have quoted the parable of the sower. yet this grace (a gift) was not given till jesus christ was back in heaven.

so death had to be conquered, for to prove, there is life after death, for a christian believer, jewish or gentile. etc

 

[royalscot]

I cannot understand why you keep asking this question, for it shows your contradiction. For you believe if a person routinely rapes, murders and pillages they are still entitled to attain heaven.
I have previously told you no one I know routinely doss those things who professes to be saved. But you believe they can do them and remain saved

I noticed yesterday you started to distort what I had written. People do that when they cannot scripturally defend their position

who defines the punishment for rapes, murders and pillages etc( sin)etc . and what law would you use, to convict etc.

 

[Matt210]

It does not appear that he actually did this. Perhaps he will come back again one day and this time no more Mr. Nice Guy.

He didn't attempt genocide? Is World War II a myth that didn't happen?

 

[tourist]

He didn't attempt genocide? Is World War II a myth that didn't happen?

Calm down!

What he did not appear to do was accept Jesus as his Lord and Savior. in response to your hypothetical question. Of course, he committed great atrocities, there is no doubt about that.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I don't like using radical examples, and I apologize if this offends anyone. I do this in the hope of catching the attention of some of you.

Adolph Hitler attempted to eradicate from the face of the planet: Jews, Catholics, non-white people that don't have blonde hair, Muslims, and many others. He accepted the Lord as his personal savior, does this give him a free pass to heaven?

This is pure BS.

 

[Gr8grace]

Let's go back to the original premise in post #1 referring to the once saved, always saved concept. I ask anyone here to answer this question.

If I declare Jesus Christ to be my savior and become saved, then start to murder, rape, and pillage the good folks of (I'm trying to think of a random city, how about Tokyo Japan) Tokyo, am I still assured of my salvation?

Yes you are. But you will more than likely suffer the sin unto death(miserable physical death). Our sin is not bigger than Christ or his grace.

And your Bema seat appearance is not going to be pretty. you will have Shame, face to face with the loving creator and your salvation will be as if through fire. humbly serve rather than reign with Him for all of eternity.

We esteem the discipline of the Lord very lightly in this day and age.

And I know this question is "bait", but grace rules supreme, not our sin.

 

[Matt210]

Yes you are. But you will more than likely suffer the sin unto death(miserable physical death). Our sin is not bigger than Christ or his grace.

And your Bema seat appearance is not going to be pretty. you will have Shame, face to face with the loving creator and your salvation will be as if through fire. humbly serve rather than reign with Him for all of eternity.

We esteem the discipline of the Lord very lightly in this day and age.

And I know this question is "bait", but grace rules supreme, not our sin.

You didn't answer the question.

 

[Gr8grace]

Let's go back to the original premise in post #1 referring to the once saved, always saved concept. I ask anyone here to answer this question.

If I declare Jesus Christ to be my savior and become saved, then start to murder, rape, and pillage the good folks of (I'm trying to think of a random city, how about Tokyo Japan) Tokyo, am I still assured of my salvation?

Now the flip-side. If I believe and become saved and become a self-righteous, pew sitting,doing "good" deeds, proud prig. And live in my own human good,which is evil, for my entire life because I believed I had to do a "little" bit more than the finished work of the cross. Am I still assured of my salvation?

Yes. A bit tongue in cheek here but not much................. I would rather be living in your scenario than the one I made up. There is a chance of hitting the knees again being that bad.

But the scenario I presented..................very few come out of that one.

 

[Matt210]

I am attempting to take these dialogues to a higher level. If anyone has two hours to spare, I strongly recommend watching this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKH1NGraKZM

This is a video of a Christian and an atheist debating their beliefs using facts, history, logic, and scripture. They are respectful throughout, but use sound logic to debate such points. This is the style of debate that I wish we could all engage in.

 

[Gr8grace]

You didn't answer the question.

Originally Posted by Gr8grace

Yes you are. But you will more than likely suffer the sin unto death(miserable physical death). Our sin is not bigger than Christ or his grace.

And your Bema seat appearance is not going to be pretty. you will have Shame, face to face with the loving creator and your salvation will be as if through fire. humbly serve rather than reign with Him for all of eternity.

We esteem the discipline of the Lord very lightly in this day and age.

And I know this question is "bait", but grace rules supreme, not our sin.

 

[Matt210]

Now the flip-side. If I believe and become saved and become a self-righteous, pew sitting,doing "good" deeds, proud prig. And live in my own human good,which is evil, for my entire life because I believed I had to do a "little" bit more than the finished work of the cross. Am I still assured of my salvation?

Yes. A bit tongue in cheek here but not much................. I would rather be living in your scenario than the one I made up. There is a chance of hitting the knees again being that bad.

But the scenario I presented..................very few come out of that one.

Ok, so I read your premise multiple times in order to understand. I assume that I am misunderstanding, because the way that I read it supposes the point that it is better to rape, pillage, and murder with the assurance of salvation, than to do good works and repent of sins.