Once Saved - Always Saved - Only saved a "works" based gospel?

superdave5221 · Jan 21, 2010

Wow, a lightbulb just clicked on. I was just studying that verse and asking for clarification in another thread because I didn't understand it. So God will take us out of this world before allowing us to be lost. What a wonderful concept! I love it! God is GREAT!!! So you are saying that we need to repent so that God can use us in this world to perform good works? And repentence only helps us in this world, not the next?

Maddog · Jan 21, 2010

The real problem, as I see it, is that some people tend to draw an artificial separation bewteen between faith and works. Every Christian understanding of salvation does, at some level, require us to 'do' something.

resurrection33 · Jan 21, 2010

I have read the Bible, but I have not memorized it. I do know that John 3:16 tells us that if we believe in Jesus, we will not perish but have eternal life. That pretty much says it all for me. Nothing here suggests to me that once we are saved, we are always saved, and yet all you need to do is believe in Jesus, and you ARE saved. We just have to KEEP believing. What could be easier? Well, once saved, always saved would be easier, but I’m not sure it would be practical.

wattie · Jan 21, 2010

okaaaaaay

repentance-

Greek -

G3340

μετανοέω

metanoeō

met-an-o-eh'-ohic
From G3326 and G3539; to think differently or afterwards, that is, reconsider (morally to feel compunction): - repent.

this is a change of mind and heart.. and happens when we ask for salvation from Jesus. It isn't a work.. it's just turning to Jesus for salvation.

There is a distinction between saving faith .. which is where you repent for salvation.. become converted on the spot.. instant and full, and then daily faith.. which is daily fellowship with Jesus.. confessing sin and repenting to be close to Jesus. Daily faith is not a HAVE to.. it is something you do out of love for what Jesus has done for you. If you don't do it.. Jesus will distance Himself from you, but never take away His atoning sacrifice for you.

This is true once saved always saved belief.. that works MAY be the result of salvation.. but not WILL. Fruit will.. but that is not fleshly works, but the natural outcome of being indwelled by the Holy Spirit.

Anyway.. I think I have posted an almost exact same post before concerning this. Point is

repentance is NOT works when it is regarding eternal salvation.. it is a change of mind to ask Jesus for salvation and forgiveness of sin.

Hebrew-

H5162
נחם
nâcham
naw-kham'
A primitive root; properly to sigh, that is, breathe strongly; by implication to be sorry, that is, (in a favorable sense) to pity, console or (reflexively) rue; or (unfavorably) to avenge (oneself): - comfort (self), ease [one’s self], repent (-er, -ing, self).

Are we not sorry for our sins and asking for forgiveness of them at salvation?

wattie · Jan 21, 2010

oh yeah.. and the present tense of never stopping believing.. is our eternal spirit that has been indwelled by the Holy Spirit that never stops believing.. our fleshly nature can and often does stop believing.

MahogonySnail · Jan 21, 2010

I don't believe the dual nature i.e. flesh vs spirit view of man is biblical or historically accurate.

Thaddaeus · Jan 21, 2010

superdave5221 said:

I just posted your answer in my last post but let me go over it again:
if you get close to the point in your walk away from God that there is no turning back to the Lord. Then God will allow satan to kill you(destroy the flesh) that the spirit may be saved. God is able to keep us from losing our salvation or even keep us from walking away, from His Love, what powers are going to seperate us from The love of God?

1co 5:5To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

it is not that I believe that if you don't believe that God can save and keep saved, that you are not saved, but that then you don't believe the bible. and if you believe that you have to keep yourself saved by your works, then scriptures says we are saved by faith, so your faith of salvation is misguided, your faith is no longer in Jesus saving you, but your faith is in you saving yourself, without faith it is impossible to please Him. we are sealed by the spirit of truth, we are sealed until the day of redemption, and it says not to greive the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit/ God has sealed something that you all claim we can break. If God shuts/seals, no man can open. but you guys say that you can, so either you were never sealed or you are still sealed. it does not say you will be sealed after you earn your way to the day of redemption but rather we are sealed UNTIL the day of redemption. but you all lack the faith In Jesus to finish the good work that He has begun in you all. He Is the Author and FINISHER of of faith and we may be joint heirs with Him trhough this faith but we are not co-authors.

2co 1:22Who hath also SEALED us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.Eph 1:13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were SEALED with that holy Spirit of promise,Eph 4:30And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are SEALED unto the day of redemption.

HumbleSaint · Jan 21, 2010

What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? .....Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. James 2:14-17

HumbleSaint · Jan 21, 2010

You go ahead and show me your faith without your works and I will show you my faith by my works.

loveschild · Jan 21, 2010

If the ones who believe we must keep repenting are right, then so sad for the ones who never kept repenting.
If the the ones who repented all their lives when they fell short, they did no harm to themselves. Just talked more to God which is a good thing.
We are saved by the free gift. We are not to stay babies in Christ. Nothing we do can repay for the free gift from Jesus.
We are to bare much fruit. We are to keep doing acts of kindenss all of our lives. Not a little bit of kindness. MUCH kindness and good deeds for others.

tinamichelle74 · Jan 21, 2010

I accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior at a young age. when I got older I fell away from God thinking at times he had turned His back on me but I realized I turned my back on him. I am so grateful that my name IS written in the Lambs book of life and once it's there it's there. God gave us free will but if we stumble, He is there willing and ready to forgive. When it comes to asking forgiveness, it is also about action. Not just saying "Lord please forgive me for...." and yet doing the same thing again. It's about changing the actions to more Christ-like actions. I hope that makes sense.

Thaddaeus · Jan 21, 2010

HumbleSaint said:

thanks for the chance to explain this one . oh have we not heard this one before. DEAD FAITH: just yesterday I preached a funeral for a family that we had grown up across the street from, I veiwed this mother's dead Body, but I saw a body, it was dead, it wasn't doing anything, it never moved, but it was still a Body, it never spoke, it didn't walk anywhere, it just laid there, but it was still a Body. our Faith, we have to know that there is a saving faith:

Ro 12:3For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the MEASURE of faith.

measure/ portion, same amount, no one can't think more highly for themselves because their measure is larger, or that God gave him some faith and some He didn't, every man hath God dealt the measure of faith, and I Believe that I used that faith for my salvation, But my Lord the one that saved me said :

Php 4:13I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

this is a different kind of faith, the kind of faith that the disciples asked Jesus to increase, the kind of faith that we do our works through. so if we are not working that faith then it is a dead faith, but it is still faith I believe I can do something, I just don't do it, my faith is not moving it is dead but it is still faith.

HumbleSaint · Jan 21, 2010

Lets just say that a man robbed a house and murderd someone in the process.

The man is sentenced to death by electiric chair.

What kind of work is going to save this man or what kind of good deed that he does is going to set him free. Nothing, he is under the law and condemned by the law according to the crimes he committed.

10 years pass by and just a couple of weeks before his death sentence the judge decides to review the case. And out of the goodness of his heart he decides to free the man. This man was saved by grace not works.

Now because this man was set free from death he is going to go out and ophold the law with love and appreciation for the mercy that the judge had shown on him. And if he committed the same sin, he would be again bound by the law.

Now Its true that A Christian is capable of sinning but if we do the Bible says we have an advacate with the Father. We need to repent of our sin and not keep on sinning. The Bible says that He who committeth sin is of the devil.

joint-heir · Jan 21, 2010

EVERY DAY is a constant struggle
I by the POWER of GOD have overcome addictions to drugs and alcohol
BUT
even as I am today an Associate Pastor I still have weaknesses that I must keep under control
EXAMPLE
A beautiful woman walks past me and she looks at me and she smiles and she says hello
I reply hello and as she passes by I turn to look at her for after all she IS BEAUTIFUL
NOW
the immediate thought crosses my mind OF MANY SCENARIOS
IS THIS WRONG OR SIN?
ABSOLUTELY NOT
what would be wrong is if I had specificed a singular thought and expanded upon that thought in a nature that was UNGODLY
NOW.......THIS IS THE SIN
BUT for this example to take place and make sense
LET's say I did expand on a thought and it became LUSTFUL
I JUST COMMITTED A SIN
IN FACT
BROKE AN COMMANDMENT SPECIFIED BY JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF
NOW.......AM I STILL UNDER GRACE WITHOUT SIN?
NO
I JUST WILLINGLY SINNED AND BROKE A COMMANDMENT OF GOD ALMIGHTY
WHICH MEANS
I NEED TO HONESTLY AND SINCERELY GO TO GOD AND REPENT OF THIS SIN

THIS ONE EXAMPLE ALONE
explains the ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED theory
TO BE FALSE

AND
this does not include
GREED-STRIFE-ENVY-LUST-HYPOCRASY-JUDGEMENT OF OTHERS-LYING-CHEATING-GOSSIP
and many other sins
I AM sure is possible that many CHRISTIANS
have daily issues with
THAT IF COMMITTED
IS A SIN UNTO GOD
AND NEEDS TO BE REPENTED OF

FOR THE WORK JESUS ACCOMPLISHED ON THE CROSS
IS ONLY GOOD FOR THE LAST SINS YOU CONFESSED AND REPENTED TO GOD FOR SALVATION
IF
YOU GO OUT AND COMMIT A NEW SIN WILLINGLY OF FREE WILL
THEN THAT PARTICULAR SIN AFTER THIS
HAS NOT YET BEEN FORGIVEN
THUS
IT IS REQUIRED TO BE ASKED FOR BY GOD IN FOGIVENESS TO BE EXONERATED
THEN
THAT SIN WILL BE FORGIVENED

Thaddaeus · Jan 21, 2010

HumbleSaint said:

yeah we work because we are saved, not because that is what saves us

charisenexcelcis · Jan 21, 2010

wattie said:

What reference? The word is not always in the present tense, nor does the present tense always denote timelessness, so I was wondering what verse or verses you were refering to.

charisenexcelcis · Jan 21, 2010

Joint-heir, so you not realise how arrogant you sound. Everytime you have anything to say, its over the top. Even when I agree with you, your tone makes me cringe. By the way, just because others are not parading around the specifics of their life, does not mean that their trials do not match yours. Glory rather in the cross.

HumbleSaint · Jan 21, 2010

Thaddaeus said:

We work because the Holy Spirit is living in us. We bear fruit because the Spirit is living in us Love, joy peace, patience, etc. Any fruit that does not bearing fruit is then plucked off. Any salt that once was salted but then looses its saver will be cast out and trampled by men.

Can we make the Spirit come through are own works? appsolutely not. Can we turn around and reject Christ after we once accepted Him? We sure can. We will be like that salt that once had its saver and then lost it.

Hey that is just what the Bible says not me. I'm just a humble servant spreading the news that may not be popular but the Bible never says that it will be.

mcubed · Jan 21, 2010

ChristsArmorBearer said:

You know people just amaze me and not in such a good way… it amazes me how some Christians are anti-Law (Torah) and tell you how Yeshua freed them from it but yet they will “Jewdeize” themselves and say if they “sin” (or at least too much)they will loose their salvation.
Many passages of Scripture support the belief that once a person has attained salvation he can never lose it. There are also many scriptures that appear to support the position that once a person has attained salvation he can lose it.
Two issues are at stake:
1. Either the Scripture contradicts itself, or it does not. If it does, then we cannot trust anything that it says.
2. Either a believer can lose his salvation, or he cannot. If he can, then he would be wise to dedicate his life to avoid losing it, whether by vigilant avoidance of any sin that may jeopardize it, or by diligent and consistent performance of righteous acts to secure it, or both. Such a life can be fraught with concern as to whether he will end up in the arms of God or in the flames of Hell. On the other hand, if a believer cannot lose his salvation, he can rest securely in the assurance and the certainty of a blessed and wonderful eternity in the presence of God. His service toward God will not be driven by the need to avoid the flames of Hell, but for the joy that is set before Him (Hebrews 12:2); nor when he sins will he fall into dread of ****ation.

joint-heir · Jan 21, 2010

charisenexcelcis said:

I AM NOT HERE SO YOU WILL LIKE ME
I AM HERE
BECAUSE
MY WALK IN GOD HAS THINGS TO OFFER OTHERS DO NOT

IF YOU HAVE NOT YET NOTICED
I SPEAK
IN
CONFIDENCE-VICTORIOUSLY-AS AN CONQUEROR-A JOINT-HEIR

IF THIS OFFENDS ANYONE
MAYBE YOU SHOULD TRY TO WALK IN GOD
TO A POINT
HE NOT ONLY LEADS YOU THRU EVERY TRIAL AND VICTORY
BUT
EVEN IN THE MIDST OF EVERY SHOT FIRED AT YOU OR THE WALLS CLOSING IN
YOU JUST ALREADY KNOW
GOD HAS IT ALL IN CONTROL

THEN
POSSIBLY
YOU JUST MIGHT KNOW WHERE I AM COMING FROM

CALL IT ARROGANCE I COULD CARE LESS
I CALL IT
THE PROMISE GOD MADE ME
AND I WILL LIVE EVERY DAY IN THAT PROMISE
BUT
IF GOD EVER DID FAIL ME
WHICH HE WOULD NEVER DO SINCE HE PROMISED HE WOULD NOT
BUT IF
THEN ILL COME IN HERE
AND ACT LIKE YOU

Once Saved - Always Saved - Only saved a "works" based gospel?

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