Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked
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This is a typical response from those who have built their theology from the doctrine of man, Calvinism, rather than the truth of Jesus Christ.
Only those who remain in Christ, will receive eternal life on that Day.
If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6
Here is how we are instructed to remain in Christ —
Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24
JLB
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That's not what Jesus said. v.27 is a DESCRIPTION of what His sheep (already saved) DO, or OUGHT TO DO. There is no condition found in v.27 that links to v.28. Your reading skills need some honing.
None of this is relevant. v.27 is a description of what saved people (His sheep) DO. v.28 is the result of being given eternal life.
Pure and simple.
Sure. Just pick out any kind of verse and pretend it applies to what Jesus said in v.28.
This passage teaches there will be two resurrections; one for the saved and one for the unsaved.
This verse teaches who possesses (HAS) eternal life: which is believers. This means believers possess eternal life WHEN they become believers.
So, at the VERY BEGINNING of their Christian life, they possess eternal life and shall never perish.
And you can't show the opposite.
You may want to confess that sin of blasphemy about what Jesus taught.
Just saying.[/QUOTE]
Sorry by you won’t be able to explain away the truth of Jesus Christ.
My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
John 10:27-28
When we hear and obey His Voice we are secure in Him; and we will receive eternal life, eternal salvation.
He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4
And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him. Hebrews 5:9
If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6
Only those who remain in Christ, will receive eternal salvation on that Day.
Here is how we are instructed to remain in Christ.
Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24
JLB
None of this is relevant. v.27 is a description of what saved people (His sheep) DO. v.28 is the result of being given eternal life.
Pure and simple.
Sure. Just pick out any kind of verse and pretend it applies to what Jesus said in v.28.
This passage teaches there will be two resurrections; one for the saved and one for the unsaved.
This verse teaches who possesses (HAS) eternal life: which is believers. This means believers possess eternal life WHEN they become believers.
So, at the VERY BEGINNING of their Christian life, they possess eternal life and shall never perish.
And you can't show the opposite.
You may want to confess that sin of blasphemy about what Jesus taught.
Just saying.[/QUOTE]
Sorry by you won’t be able to explain away the truth of Jesus Christ.
My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
John 10:27-28
When we hear and obey His Voice we are secure in Him; and we will receive eternal life, eternal salvation.
He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4
And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him. Hebrews 5:9
If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6
Only those who remain in Christ, will receive eternal salvation on that Day.
Here is how we are instructed to remain in Christ.
Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24
JLB
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Those that don’t abide in Him are the unsaved lost. The bad tree. The tares.
The ones in this passage are NOT lost.
John 15
2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away;
Those that are UNFRUITFUL, that are His, are taken away, “removed” or lifted up. Here’s the Greek word.
airó ►
The ones in this passage are NOT lost.
John 15
2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away;
Those that are UNFRUITFUL, that are His, are taken away, “removed” or lifted up. Here’s the Greek word.
airó ►
Strong's Concordance
They are NOT thrown in the fire. Their ability to be an effective, fruitful servant is gone.
BUT,
This will cause them to forfeit REWARDS not SALVATION.
airó: to raise, take up, lift
They are NOT thrown in the fire. Their ability to be an effective, fruitful servant is gone.
BUT,
This will cause them to forfeit REWARDS not SALVATION.
Sadly so often in forums this kind of thing shows up. Someone gets a thought. Then they glean the Scriptures to prove themselves. Throwing aside Scripture logic that has been learned for generations. Precept upon precept.
Seems to me this is how Christians end up with only isms. We get baptism is necessary for Salvation. No musical instrument in worship. Ideas like only the Words of Jesus. Or Paul's gospel is a different gospel.
Can't quote the verse on tablet. Paraphrased ....all Scripture is good for learning. When we choose to ignore what passages shed a slightly different light on OUR views we show a not so good side of out selves. Our egos have taken over we want to be the person who found thee key.
God gave the body leaders who have God given requirements for a reason. We are not to go off as silly women being lead here and there.
Seems to me this is how Christians end up with only isms. We get baptism is necessary for Salvation. No musical instrument in worship. Ideas like only the Words of Jesus. Or Paul's gospel is a different gospel.
Can't quote the verse on tablet. Paraphrased ....all Scripture is good for learning. When we choose to ignore what passages shed a slightly different light on OUR views we show a not so good side of out selves. Our egos have taken over we want to be the person who found thee key.
God gave the body leaders who have God given requirements for a reason. We are not to go off as silly women being lead here and there.
Joh 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
Joh 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
Joh 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
Joh 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 6:43 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.
Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
Joh 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
Joh 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 6:43 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.
Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
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The word heart in the NT typically means thoughts or feelings as they are strongly connected. I don’t know how everyone experiences their own thoughts and feelings, but I guess we’re all similar. For me, my genuine beliefs are my thoughts and feelings - that’s my heart.
So I believe Judas did repent of his betrayal of Jesus since there’s no way to fake sincere regret and repentance to God. He had a change of heart.
So I believe Judas did repent of his betrayal of Jesus since there’s no way to fake sincere regret and repentance to God. He had a change of heart.
P
no
he had a big mouth and was banned
he actually went looking for trouble...much like you seem to do
and finally he bit off more than he could make excuses for.
don't expect anymore responses from me. YOU are the one who picks on people and follows them from thread to thread so that you can pick on
like a mosquito that just wants to bite and lives to do it
he had a big mouth and was banned
he actually went looking for trouble...much like you seem to do
and finally he bit off more than he could make excuses for.
don't expect anymore responses from me. YOU are the one who picks on people and follows them from thread to thread so that you can pick on
like a mosquito that just wants to bite and lives to do it
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Hi Magenta.
Well, Paul said in 1 Cor 9, written around 53 A.D. (as shown earlier) that he could still be cast away/disqualified.
1 Cor 9:24:
"24Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain it. 25And everyone who competes for the prize [j]is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a perishable crown, but we for an imperishable crown. 26Therefore I run thus: not with uncertainty. Thus I fight: not as one who beats the air. 27But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified."
Doesn't that suggest that Paul, who surely was already Justified, filled with the Holy Spirit, had evangelized many, written many Epistles, exhorted many Christians, planted many Churches etc etc - had still not received the Grace of Perseverance?
Otherwise, why would he say he could still be cast away? Any thoughts on that? imo, this passage shows Salvation=Justification or OSAS is not correct. Salvation=Justification+Sanctification+Perseverance is the Biblical equation imo.
Now, some 15 years later, shortly before he died/was Martyred for Our Lord, St. Paul the Apostle wrote:
2 Tim 4:6 "For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 8Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me only but also to all who have loved His appearing."
At this point, he knew he had received the Grace of Perseverance and was going to Heaven. He had run the race, he had kept the Faith, he had fought the Good Fight. Hence, he said, there is laid up for him a crown of righteousness.
As for when the Gift is given, sooner or later it will be given, if we persist in asking God for it. In Our Lord's Prayer, He taught us to Pray, along with asking for our daily bread: "Do not lead us into temptation/testing, but deliver us from the evil one". When we pray that, we pray to be kept safe from temptation/evil etc and falling into sin. So, as Our Lord said, everyone who asks will receive etc, and told us to pray perseveringly giving the example of the Widow and the Unjust Judge etc, sooner or later, when we pray, we will receive this Gift of Perseverance, and after that, we will never fall away from the Faith, and so we will be Saved.
God Bless.
Well, Paul said in 1 Cor 9, written around 53 A.D. (as shown earlier) that he could still be cast away/disqualified.
1 Cor 9:24:
"24Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain it. 25And everyone who competes for the prize [j]is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a perishable crown, but we for an imperishable crown. 26Therefore I run thus: not with uncertainty. Thus I fight: not as one who beats the air. 27But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified."
Doesn't that suggest that Paul, who surely was already Justified, filled with the Holy Spirit, had evangelized many, written many Epistles, exhorted many Christians, planted many Churches etc etc - had still not received the Grace of Perseverance?
Otherwise, why would he say he could still be cast away? Any thoughts on that? imo, this passage shows Salvation=Justification or OSAS is not correct. Salvation=Justification+Sanctification+Perseverance is the Biblical equation imo.
Now, some 15 years later, shortly before he died/was Martyred for Our Lord, St. Paul the Apostle wrote:
2 Tim 4:6 "For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 8Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me only but also to all who have loved His appearing."
At this point, he knew he had received the Grace of Perseverance and was going to Heaven. He had run the race, he had kept the Faith, he had fought the Good Fight. Hence, he said, there is laid up for him a crown of righteousness.
As for when the Gift is given, sooner or later it will be given, if we persist in asking God for it. In Our Lord's Prayer, He taught us to Pray, along with asking for our daily bread: "Do not lead us into temptation/testing, but deliver us from the evil one". When we pray that, we pray to be kept safe from temptation/evil etc and falling into sin. So, as Our Lord said, everyone who asks will receive etc, and told us to pray perseveringly giving the example of the Widow and the Unjust Judge etc, sooner or later, when we pray, we will receive this Gift of Perseverance, and after that, we will never fall away from the Faith, and so we will be Saved.
God Bless.
As far as I’m aware, the words “change of heart” don’t appear in the New Testament. Many verses and passages describe a change of heart because repentance is defined as a change of heart.
Judas changed his heart about betraying Jesus, the bit about “he was seized with remorse” is translated from a Greek word that means repent:
Matt 27:3
3When Judas, who had betrayed him, saw that Jesus was condemned, he was seized with remorse and returned the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and the elders. 4“I have sinned,” he said, “for I have betrayed innocent blood.”
Judas changed his heart about betraying Jesus, the bit about “he was seized with remorse” is translated from a Greek word that means repent:
Matt 27:3
3When Judas, who had betrayed him, saw that Jesus was condemned, he was seized with remorse and returned the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and the elders. 4“I have sinned,” he said, “for I have betrayed innocent blood.”
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I think that is interesting - the aspect of praying for perseverance being necessary.
I would add, as Paul unmistakably puts it
Romans 2: 6,7
God “will repay each one according to his deeds.” To those who by perseverance in doing good seek glory, honor, and immortality, He will give eternal life.
further
Romans 2:12
All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law.
God bless you.
I would add, as Paul unmistakably puts it
Romans 2: 6,7
God “will repay each one according to his deeds.” To those who by perseverance in doing good seek glory, honor, and immortality, He will give eternal life.
further
Romans 2:12
All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law.
God bless you.
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Precious friend, A Very Warm Welcome To Chat.
"pray without ceasing" (1Th 5:17) would then be "all inclusive,"
eh?:
Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged And Edified In
The LORD JESUS CHRIST, And His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided (+ I and II).
Grace, Peace, And JOY!...
"pray without ceasing" (1Th 5:17) would then be "all inclusive,"
eh?:
Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged And Edified In
The LORD JESUS CHRIST, And His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided (+ I and II).
Grace, Peace, And JOY!...
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