Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
T

ThereRoseaLamb

Well-known member
#3,361
Jan 17, 2023
4,824
2,084
113
#3,361
cv5 said:
Worked on Paul that much is for sure.

I welcome your efforts if you want to post some Scriptures supporting your position. Then I will respond.
Click to expand...
Maybe a thread on TULIP needs to be started, dealing with each letter. Though I understand there are degrees that some support and not others.
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#3,362
Nov 20, 2018
23,778
8,613
113
#3,362
VARob said:
God chose the Christian church before the foundation of the world, not individual Christians.
Click to expand...
Wrong again......:rolleyes:
And here again, in black and white, the undeniable FACT of God's own CHOOSING. Of an individual. For specific service. Which undoubtedly happens to this very present day.

Act 9:15
But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#3,363
Nov 20, 2018
23,778
8,613
113
#3,363
ThereRoseaLamb said:
Maybe a thread on TULIP needs to be started, dealing with each letter. Though I understand there are degrees that some support and not others.
Click to expand...
This thread is OSAS. Which is inextricably linked to Gods own CHOOSING and election.
IMO....well within the topic boundaries.
 
E

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#3,364
Dec 18, 2021
6,066
1,948
113
#3,364
Runningman said:
OSAS debunked yet again.

Revelation 12
17And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 14
12Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Revelation 22
14Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Click to expand...
once again, You fail to prove your point.

This is not a list of things they must do

it is a list of things they DO

ie, it is not prescriptive, It describes WHO gods people are.

nice try though
 
T

ThereRoseaLamb

Well-known member
#3,365
Jan 17, 2023
4,824
2,084
113
#3,365
cv5 said:
This thread is OSAS. Which is inextricably linked to Gods own CHOOSING and election.
IMO....well within the topic boundaries.
Click to expand...
No, I didn't say it wasn't. Just thought it might be a good topic for a thread. So here's where I get tied up more than any other part of OSAS. God choosing to create a people for destruction. If there is an elect then there is an opposite. And here I get stuck in the quick sand. That God would create men, women and children to be destroyed, incapable of receiving salvation. Perhaps we could start there.
 
E

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#3,366
Dec 18, 2021
6,066
1,948
113
#3,366
Runningman said:
This isn’t tribulation saints. Rightly divide the word of truth.

Revelation 22
14Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Click to expand...
again, Descriptive. Not prescriptive.

Gods people do (not might do) Gods commands. Because God changed them
 
R

Runningman

Banned
#3,370
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
#3,370
Everlasting-Grace said:
again, Descriptive. Not prescriptive.

Gods people do (not might do) Gods commands. Because God changed them
Click to expand...
Let’s just make it clear. Revelation 22:14 says those who keep God’s commandments have right to the tree of life, but you’re saying keeping the commandments is not required to have right to the tree of life.

This is an easy one. who’s right: you or the Bible? The Bible is right and you’re wrong.

If you don’t keep God’s commandments you’re not accessing the tree of life.
 
R

Runningman

Banned
#3,371
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
#3,371
cv5 said:
I am not a Calvinist.
Click to expand...
OSAS, free grace, unmerited grace, and such doctrines of those people (yourself included) are heavily steeped in Calvin’s TULIP. You’re definitely a Calvinist, you just didn’t know it.
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

Well-known member
#3,372
May 21, 2022
6,339
2,465
113
#3,372
VARob said:
Who was Jesus speaking to? The twelve. Jesus chose his disciples.
Click to expand...
I was just going to type that and read your response. :)

Audience relevance is so important, but the Calvinist slanters (cause they are not Calvinists ;)) tends to like avoid the context.
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#3,373
Nov 20, 2018
23,778
8,613
113
#3,373
Runningman said:
OSAS, free grace, unmerited grace, and such doctrines of those people (yourself included) are heavily steeped in Calvin’s TULIP. You’re definitely a Calvinist, you just didn’t know it.
Click to expand...
As you can (easily) see in my many posts, I am "heavily steeped" in pertinent (irrefutable) BIBLICAL REFERENCES.
And Calvin did not write my Bible.
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

Well-known member
#3,374
May 21, 2022
6,339
2,465
113
#3,374
Snacks said:
After reading your post I wondered if anyone falls into the category you described, then realized you just defined most Catholics.
Click to expand...
I would agree, but I would also state that they do not have the full Good News and the simplicity of the Gospel is contaminated with extraneous false teachings.
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

Well-known member
#3,375
May 21, 2022
6,339
2,465
113
#3,375
VARob said:
The battle between Calvinism and free-will has raged on for centurys. Usually, once a person has made a decision on what they believe, it doesn't change.

That is true to this day.

God bless. I'm out.
Click to expand...
I left some Calvinist teachings that I held so it does happen.

I think if one can lay down their biases and do a deep dive one will see that TULIP, whether it is TULIP lite or the TULIP traditional is not what God is revealing in His word.
 
R

Runningman

Banned
#3,376
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
#3,376
cv5 said:
As you can (easily) see in my many posts, I am "heavily steeped" in pertinent (irrefutable) BIBLICAL REFERENCES.
And Calvin did not write my Bible.
Click to expand...
I could prove it, but you wouldn’t listen.
 
R

Runningman

Banned
#3,377
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
#3,377
VARob said:
Every Christian (person born again of the Holy Spirit) will be saved. The gift of the Holy Spirit is the guarantee of salvation (Eph 1:13-14).

The difference between a dedicated Christian and a "pew-warmer on Christmas and Easter" Christian will be rewards. Dedicated Christians will receive a "rich welcome" (Heb 10:35; 2 Pet 1:11; more..), lazy Christians may get nothing at all (1 Cor 3:10-15). But every Christian will be saved.
Click to expand...
what does it mean God will judge each person according to what they have done?

2 Corinthians 5
10For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive his due for the things done in the body, whether good or bad.

seems pretty straightforward, but Paul didn’t really explain what happens to those bad works in 2 Corinthians 5.

However, Paul explained in Romans 2 that works aren’t just rewards. They’re the standard by which we are judged, given eternal life, or receive God’s wrath.

Romans 2
5But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed.

6God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”

7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

8But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11For God does not show favoritism.
 
E

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#3,378
Dec 18, 2021
6,066
1,948
113
#3,378
Runningman said:
Let’s just make it clear. Revelation 22:14 says those who keep God’s commandments have right to the tree of life, but you’re saying keeping the commandments is not required to have right to the tree of life.

This is an easy one. who’s right: you or the Bible? The Bible is right and you’re wrong.

If you don’t keep God’s commandments you’re not accessing the tree of life.
Click to expand...
No

I never said this at all. Once again you prove your compretension skills is lacking

how do you get Gods People DO his commands to equal Gods people may not DO his commands..

these are not the same
 
E

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#3,379
Dec 18, 2021
6,066
1,948
113
#3,379
Runningman said:
OSAS, free grace, unmerited grace, and such doctrines of those people (yourself included) are heavily steeped in Calvin’s TULIP. You’re definitely a Calvinist, you just didn’t know it.
Click to expand...
Imagine standing in front of God and realising you rejected his truth All because you hate calvinism.

That will make for a long eternity
 
T

ThereRoseaLamb

Well-known member
#3,380
Jan 17, 2023
4,824
2,084
113
#3,380
HeIsHere said:
I left some Calvinist teachings that I held so it does happen.

I think if one can lay down their biases and do a deep dive one will see that TULIP, whether it is TULIP lite or the TULIP traditional is not what God is revealing in His word.
Click to expand...
That made me smile. May I ask what caused you to change your mind? As I said, there are just some things in TULIP that go too far for my understanding of the Word. I guess I've never really pressed my OSAS friends as to what decree they support TULIP.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.