Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Jan 17, 2023
167
62
28
Imagine standing in front of God and realising you rejected his truth All because you hate calvinism.

That will make for a long eternity

I don't hate Calvinism, there are just degrees of it that I don't believe are what the Bible tells us of who God is. I keep coming back to a people being created for destruction, no one has yet clearly explained that to me.
 

Snacks

Well-known member
Feb 10, 2022
1,219
661
113
I would agree, but I would also state that they do not have the full Good News and the simplicity of the Gospel is contaminated with extraneous false teachings.
“Contaminated” ~ excellent description. Add the word burdensome and it’s complete.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
14,800
3,079
113
This isn’t tribulation saints. Rightly divide the word of truth.

Revelation 22
14Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Here's another verse of the same people, the Jewish remnant.

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
 

Runningman

Well-known member
Mar 4, 2020
8,474
3,625
113
Imagine standing in front of God and realising you rejected his truth All because you hate calvinism.

That will make for a long eternity
It’s always the same with your bunch. When you’re backed into a corner, rather than demonstrate any class or humility, you always defer to your debate opponents being liars, coming under God’s judgement, going to hell, or some other outrageous claim.

Except, @Cameron143 he’s great. We disagree on basically everything but I love his mannerisms and style. Y’all can learn from this man who I will call a brother of mine.
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
1,691
580
113
I don't hate Calvinism, there are just degrees of it that I don't believe are what the Bible tells us of who God is. I keep coming back to a people being created for destruction, no one has yet clearly explained that to me.
I agree, and feel the same way

I am more talking to a person who rejects eternal security found in christ (OSAS) based solely on the fact he hates calvinism.
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
1,691
580
113
It’s always the same with your bunch. When you’re backed into a corner, rather than demonstrate any class or humility, you always defer to your debate opponents being liars, coming under God’s judgement, going to hell, or some other outrageous claim.

Except, @Cameron143 he’s great. We disagree on basically everything but I love his mannerisms and style. Y’all can learn from this man who I will call a brother of mine.
I am not backed into a corner my friend. I am just stating a fact. your hatred of calvinsim (I am against it also) has you blinded to the truth..
 

Runningman

Well-known member
Mar 4, 2020
8,474
3,625
113
Here's another verse of the same people, the Jewish remnant.

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
I believe it applies to anyone who is a Christian, but let’s go with your interpretation and look at it.

So whether they are tribulation saints or a Jewish remnant, they aren’t OSAS. Not only do they have to have faith in Jesus, but they also have to keep the commandments. Failing to do so may possibly cause a salvation issue for them.

The 10 commandments have been given to the church in various passages in the New Testament.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
14,800
3,079
113
I believe it applies to anyone who is a Christian, but let’s go with your interpretation and look at it.

So whether they are tribulation saints or a Jewish remnant, they aren’t OSAS. Not only do they have to have faith in Jesus, but they also have to keep the commandments. Failing to do so may possibly cause a salvation issue for them.

The 10 commandments have been given to the church in various passages in the New Testament.
Exactly, the Jewish remnant have to endure to the end, thankfully, the Lord has shortened those days. They must keep the commandments and the faith of Christ. If not, they are in danger. This is a separate dispensation.
 

Runningman

Well-known member
Mar 4, 2020
8,474
3,625
113
Exactly, the Jewish remnant have to endure to the end, thankfully, the Lord has shortened those days. They must keep the commandments and the faith of Christ. If not, they are in danger. This is a separate dispensation.
In order for that to be valid, the Gentile church needs to have never been told to have endurance to the end to be saved. Therefore, your interpretation doesn’t work as far as I can tell. Gentiles are also told to have endurance.

Romans 2
7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

2 Timothy 2
10Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they too may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus, with eternal glory.
11Here is a trustworthy saying:
If we died with him,
we will also live with him;
12if we endure,
we will also reign with him.

If we disown him,
he will also disown us;
13if we are faithless,
he remains faithful,
for he cannot disown himself.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
14,800
3,079
113
In order for that to be valid, the Gentile church needs to have never been told to have endurance to the end to be saved. Therefore, your interpretation doesn’t work as far as I can tell. Gentiles are also told to have endurance.

Romans 2
7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

2 Timothy 2
10Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they too may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus, with eternal glory.
11Here is a trustworthy saying:
If we died with him,
we will also live with him;
12if we endure,
we will also reign with him.

If we disown him,
he will also disown us;
13if we are faithless,
he remains faithful,
for he cannot disown himself.
2 Timothy 2
10Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they too may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus, with eternal glory. Paul always had a heart to reach the Jews, God's elect people
11Here is a trustworthy saying:
If we died with him,
we will also live with him;
12if we endure,
we will also reign with him. In the Millennium, this is not salvation, but our opportunity to reign with Christ
If we disown him,

he will also disown us; The proper word is deny, he will deny us reign. Again, salvation is not the context.
13if we are faithless,
he remains faithful,
for he cannot disown himself. If one is in Christ, then he is secure because he cannot deny himself.
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
778
300
63
That made me smile. May I ask what caused you to change your mind? As I said, there are just some things in TULIP that go too far for my understanding of the Word. I guess I've never really pressed my OSAS friends as to what decree they support TULIP.

God is Love.
 

Runningman

Well-known member
Mar 4, 2020
8,474
3,625
113
2 Timothy 2
10Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they too may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus, with eternal glory. Paul always had a heart to reach the Jews, God's elect people
11Here is a trustworthy saying:
If we died with him,
we will also live with him;
12if we endure,
we will also reign with him. In the Millennium, this is not salvation, but our opportunity to reign with Christ
If we disown him,

he will also disown us; The proper word is deny, he will deny us reign. Again, salvation is not the context.
13if we are faithless,
he remains faithful,
for he cannot disown himself. If one is in Christ, then he is secure because he cannot deny himself.
Remember who Paul is talking to. Paul, being an apostle to the Gentiles, ordained by God, said he endures all things for the elect. The elect are those in Christ. The elect are not those who are non-believers, regardless of race/ethnicity, heritage, etc.

Ephesians 3
1For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for the sake of you Gentiles—
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
34,107
11,964
113
Romans 2
7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life
Ya might want to one day read Romans 2 in context.

Romans 3:10
As it is written:
"There is none righteous, no, not one"

Romans 4:4-7
Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.
But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:
"Blessedare those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered"

Romans 5:1
Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
34,107
11,964
113
Romans 1:16-17
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written,
"The just shall live by faith."
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
34,107
11,964
113
Romans 2
7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.
Context.

Romans 2:1
you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things.

Romans 2:23
You who make your boast in the law, do you dishonor God through breaking the law?

Romans 3:19-23
Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God

Context.
 

Runningman

Well-known member
Mar 4, 2020
8,474
3,625
113
Context.

Romans 2:1
you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things.

Romans 2:23
You who make your boast in the law, do you dishonor God through breaking the law?

Romans 3:19-23
Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God

Context.
Paul’s point is that by persisting in doing doing good they are under grace. If they aren’t under grace then they’re under the law. There is no law against persisting in doing good, for such things are fruits of the Holy Spirit. However, the works of the flesh place someone under the law of God. Context. That’s why what you do actually matters. People will be judged by whatever they have done, good or bad. Solid Bible.

Please read Galatians 5 as well.
 

Ted01

Active member
May 14, 2022
264
105
43
This thread seems to be moving in the direction "works-righteousness"?

We are saved by Grace, through Faith.
And our Salvation is "maintained" by Faith as well, not works.

The enduring to the end that's been mentioned isn't talking about enduring in good works, it's enduring in Faith.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
34,107
11,964
113
Paul’s point is that by persisting in doing doing good they are under grace.
Romans 4:4-5
Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness.

Ain't seeing "works earn grace" here.
Sure looks like it's about belief.


smh