Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

[ButterflyJones]

Pride goeth before a long thread, and even a haughty spirit would like to be done by the Fall...Proverbs something...LIV(Loosely Interpreted Version).

You know the thread that asks how long it can run if posts only ask questions?

Here's an idea. How long can a Bible discussion last without personal attack, sarcasm, condescension and all the other stuff like it entering in?

 

[Cameron143]

You know the thread that asks how long it can run if posts only ask questions?

Here's an idea. How long can a Bible discussion last without personal attack, sarcasm, condescension and all the other stuff like it entering in?

We live in a fallen world so I'm guessing...not long.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

I'll address this because it seems to me to encapsulate the jist of your overall post.
How do we know Election wasn't for every human to be Saved?

I think if that was God's intention the gospel would read very differently.

Namely but not limited to the fact if everyone was to be the elect, elect would lose its meaning. Which means God would have never mentioned the elect because of its definition we're his intention to save all.

Also, if all were intended to be the elect of God, God would have softened the hearts of everyone who were born first with a natural carnal mind unable to understand him.

And 2 Thessalonians 1 would not say, With flaming fire he will mete out punishment on those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They will undergo the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his strength, 10 when he comes to be glorified among his saints and admired on that day among all who have believed—and you did in fact believe our testimony. 11 And in this regard we pray for you always, that our God will make you worthy of his calling and fulfill by his power your every desire for goodness and every work of faith, 12 that the name of our Lord Jesus may be glorified in you, and you in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

You just provided Scriptures that explain DISOBEDIENCE.

Isn't denying God in accepting Him, not following His Will, obeying the Flesh and others examples of how it's possible to Disobey God?

If I was predestined to be the Elect but choose NO, haven't I Disobeyed God?

Didn't Adam and Eve Disobey God?

Why would God not want His entire creation to be the Elect? He died for Everyone. To die for Everyone seems the intention was for Everyone to be Saved.

Why would it mean anything else?

 

[ButterflyJones]

You just provided Scriptures that explain DISOBEDIENCE.

Isn't denying God in accepting Him, not following His Will, obeying the Flesh and others examples of how it's possible to Disobey God?

If I was predestined to be the Elect but choose NO, haven't I Disobeyed God?

Didn't Adam and Eve Disobey God?

Why would God not want His entire creation to be the Elect? He died for Everyone. To die for Everyone seems the intention was for Everyone to be Saved.

Why would it mean anything else?

When Holy Spirit changes the natural carnal mind so to cause that mind to cease thinking the things of God are foolishness it follows that the gospel would then be rightly understood.
Matthew 13


It is God who justifies.

 

[ButterflyJones]

You just provided Scriptures that explain DISOBEDIENCE.

Isn't denying God in accepting Him, not following His Will, obeying the Flesh and others examples of how it's possible to Disobey God?

If I was predestined to be the Elect but choose NO, haven't I Disobeyed God?

Didn't Adam and Eve Disobey God?

Why would God not want His entire creation to be the Elect? He died for Everyone. To die for Everyone seems the intention was for Everyone to be Saved.

Why would it mean anything else?

Why did Jesus who was God the Father have to die in the first place?

 

[cv5]

Ok so you believe Christ died for all. Yes or no?

Let's me ask you this: Are you actually aware beyond any doubt whatsoever that your assertion is without a doubt true? Or false?

Or are you simply guessing to the best of your ability?

I think it best to leave these cosmic scale questions to Almighty God.
As for me I am not in the business of redeeming or condemning anybody.

 

[Mem]

When Holy Spirit changes the natural carnal mind so to cause that mind to cease thinking the things of God are foolishness it follows that the gospel would then be rightly understood.
Matthew 13


It is God who justifies.

The option to trust God without/ before/even though we don't have understand ing is being left out of consideration for possibility.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

When Holy Spirit changes the natural carnal mind so to cause that mind to cease thinking the things of God are foolishness it follows that the gospel would then be rightly understood.
Matthew 13


It is God who justifies.

The Holy Spirit doesn't take over until we submit to Christ's invitation.

The Holy Spirit doesn't fill the heart until the heart submits.

There's a clear process that happens.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Why did Jesus who was God the Father have to die in the first place?

Ultimately, God wants to be in a RELATIONSHIP. He created humanity to be their God. So no matter what happened whether man remained sinless or sinned, God's desire to be in a RELATIONSHIP caused Him to create a way for that to happen.

Of course, when God created Adam, He knew Adam would SIN. So God already had a Plan prepared. This is how important it is to God to be in a RELATIONSHIP with us.

Jesus provided the way for God to be in RELATIONSHIP to His creation.

 

[Blain]

Do you know what Spiritual Warfare is?

Because Peter, Paul, Jude talk about when someone perverts the Holy Word of God we are to come against it.

If you are not able to understand that is what took place, you have NOTHING of God to offer anyone.

Yes because all my ranting about the kingdom of God and the mission was obviously not of God I bet the devil preaches the kingdom all the time. All I can say is you assume the spirit in which I speak is not of God but think about this what if your wrong? are you prepared for that? Do you see anyone else in this forum speaking strangely and saying weird things in what their saying do you see a recurring pattern in the posts I am making on cc?

Jesus was the same way when he was on his mission.

 

[Blain]

Do you know what Spiritual Warfare is?

Because Peter, Paul, Jude talk about when someone perverts the Holy Word of God we are to come against it.

If you are not able to understand that is what took place, you have NOTHING of God to offer anyone.

I actually wanted to come back to answer your question about spiritual warfare and yes I know all about it as the past three years the powers of hell have been absolutely brutal to me I clung to God with all I had but I could only sit there and take it like this wasn't your average spiritual attack it was a well planned and thought out war tactic and I even attempted suicide twice but God refused to let me die.

After I tried for the last time he wouldn't let me die but he did take me to the other side I crossed waters that like a rushing river I can even remember the smell of it this was when I got a taste of the kingdom and it changed me it brought me to complete and utter surrender and now I though the powers of hell made me tremble before I spit in it's face if the forces of hell want to fight with me it's at their own risk I know who my God is and I know where I stand with him

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Yes because all my ranting about the kingdom of God and the mission was obviously not of God I bet the devil preaches the kingdom all the time. All I can say is you assume the spirit in which I speak is not of God but think about this what if your wrong? are you prepared for that? Do you see anyone else in this forum speaking strangely and saying weird things in what their saying do you see a recurring pattern in the posts I am making on cc?

Jesus was the same way when he was on his mission.

First of all, portions of the Doctrine I was challenging have been tied to the false idealisms of John Calvin, not from God. There's a constant consistency of yanking a single Verse here and there from established meaning that are singularly placed to become a new meaning.

Being raised in that Doctrine gave me First Hand to the tricks used to create idealisms from Scripture removed from how they were meant to be understood by the Holy Spirit to then create a new meaning to format the Doctrine.

Being familiar gives me a great advantage to what is happening. And I will call it out every time.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

I actually wanted to come back to answer your question about spiritual warfare and yes I know all about it as the past three years the powers of hell have been absolutely brutal to me I clung to God with all I had but I could only sit there and take it like this wasn't your average spiritual attack it was a well planned and thought out war tactic and I even attempted suicide twice but God refused to let me die.

After I tried for the last time he wouldn't let me die but he did take me to the other side I crossed waters that like a rushing river I can even remember the smell of it this was when I got a taste of the kingdom and it changed me it brought me to complete and utter surrender and now I though the powers of hell made me tremble before I spit in it's face if the forces of hell want to fight with me it's at their own risk I know who my God is and I know where I stand with him

I have no doubt what you claim is true. I have recently, or believe I have finally made it through an experience I would call my own Job trial. I am talking about a 14 year period of my life. Now, something did happen this past December that makes me believe God brought me out because I have been on a 2 month period of great peace and I am watching to see what God is doing next.

I've read Matthew to Jude in the past couple months. It's just been flowing and the easiest read with more meaningful insights. I am entering Revelation and just deciding if I want to read about the 7 Churches or go directly into the Throne Room of God and try to envision what John was seeing from his written words.

But I do wonder and believe as easy it was to finish basically the entire New Testament in 60 days if God is leading me into a new challenge that this recent understanding will be required and necessary for what lies ahead.

But yeah, I definitely understand trials and tribulations.

 

[Blain]

First of all, portions of the Doctrine I was challenging have been tied to the false idealisms of John Calvin, not from God. There's a constant consistency of yanking a single Verse here and there from established meaning that are singularly placed to become a new meaning.

Being raised in that Doctrine gave me First Hand to the tricks used to create idealisms from Scripture removed from how they were meant to be understood by the Holy Spirit to then create a new meaning to format the Doctrine.

Being familiar gives me a great advantage to what is happening. And I will call it out every time.

ca;; it what you will in the end it isn't about me or you

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

ca;; it what you will in the end it isn't about me or you

So we are not responsible if we see false ideas being introduced, and the possibility for someone to believe them, and not doing anything about it?

If we saw Satan as a roaring lion attacking someone, we just walk away and ignore it?

So much for being my Brothers keeper and loving my neighbor..

 

[Blain]

I have no doubt what you claim is true. I have recently, or believe I have finally made it through an experience I would call my own Job trial. I am talking about a 14 year period of my life. Now, something did happen this past December that makes me believe God brought me out because I have been on a 2 month period of great peace and I am watching to see what God is doing next.

I've read Matthew to Jude in the past couple months. It's just been flowing and the easiest read with more meaningful insights. I am entering Revelation and just deciding if I want to read about the 7 Churches or go directly into the Throne Room of God and try to envision what John was seeing from his written words.

But I do wonder and believe as easy it was to finish basically the entire New Testament in 60 days if God is leading me into a new challenge that this recent understanding will be required and necessary for what lies ahead.

But yeah, I definitely understand trials and tribulations.

Yes he is equipping you because something is coming and it is going to require us to be a different breed of Christians those who live and walk in his authority and power wherever they go he is with them all the powers of hell would know their place right under the feet of his children

He has been working at a different place then before he isn't messing around and he needs us to get to his level
. I mean surely you feel he is up something big right?

 

[Blain]

So we are not responsible if we see false ideas being introduced, and the possibility for someone to believe them, and not doing anything about it?

If we saw Satan as a roaring lion attacking someone, we just walk away and ignore it?

So much for being my Brothers keeper and loving my neighbor..

Nornally I would take what your saying and consider it but i'm not who I was before I'm going for the kingdom and im bringing it here and wherever I get the chance to plant a seed of the kingdom I will do but if that alone was what was going on that would be one thing but every time I obey him and speak what he says to speak I get results he changes and molds me the more I speak the presence of him changing me as I keep going.

So yeah I know by what spirit I opperate

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Yes he is equipping you because something is coming and it is going to require us to be a different breed of Christians those who live and walk in his authority and power wherever they go he is with them all the powers of hell would know their place right under the feet of his children

He has been working at a different place then before he isn't messing around and he needs us to get to his level
. I mean surely you feel he is up something big right?

Yes, I do believe it could be a last push of God to give humanity one last chance. Mostly the younger generations that are disconnected from any idea that God exists.

I read a Pew Research Poll where people 30 and under that only 18% believe it's possible a God could exist.

Just crazy when I was born from my Mother's Womb and in Church immediately and always had an idea about God and today young ADULTS and younger have no idea about God.

But with this last Movement I think Satan will be more blatant than ever to stop it and Believers like us will be required to be a vital part of spiritual warfare.

I also think our Biblical knowledge will be necessary to reach others with during this period.

We might be the only example of Christ these people will ever know this side of Heaven.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Nornally I would take what your saying and consider it but i'm not who I was before I'm going for the kingdom and im bringing it here and wherever I get the chance to plant a seed of the kingdom I will do but if that alone was what was going on that would be one thing but every time I obey him and speak what he says to speak I get results he changes and molds me the more I speak the presence of him changing me as I keep going.

So yeah I know by what spirit I opperate

I understand and it appears that you are disconnected from issues on this Site and more focused upon what you are waiting on God to do.

You are about unity and being more powerful as connected Believers in preparation for what you feel in your spirit that is on its way.

I see that and agree.

But I want like Believers and no wavering idealism that could create more damage than good.

 

[Blain]

I understand and it appears that you are disconnected from issues on this Site and more focused upon what you are waiting on God to do.

You are about unity and being more powerful as connected Believers in preparation for what you feel in your spirit that is on its way.

I see that and agree.

But I want like Believers and no wavering idealism that could create more damage than good.

Idealsm is not what I'm bringing to the table im after truth and wont accept anything less it has to be the real thing or nothing at all
believe it or not I actually never know what I am going to say I just say to God I am the pen you are the words and then the words just spill out and I can feel his breath on my neck.

I speak of things I myself do not understand but am slowly growing in and it is because of obedience to his voice you don't just get to have the deeper things of God there are levels and ranks in his kingdom just like any other kingdom you rank up with obedience and thus are allowed more confidential things

I am not perfect in this yet there is a frequency you have to tune into it has to be his frequency then you can hear him clearly and though I am tuned it sometimes some static pops up this is where I have grace.

But I have to obey him even if I seem like im a bit off because I saw who are in him when I went to the other side where he is calling us to but many are called few are chosen I don't know really what it is that he has cooking where he would need a church that would be a representation of him unlike anything before but it must be big if he is needing us at that level.