Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

[Everlasting-Grace]

If God paid for everyone's sins, on what basis does He send people to hell?

On the basis of unbelief

He tells us this when he tells nicodemus how to be born again

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.

here he uses the example of moses and the serpent. Everyone who was bitten had to make a choice. Trust God through mpses and look up in faith and live, or in unbelief do not look up and die..

The whole world is bitten by the curse of death.. The ones who look up at christ in belief will live, the ones who do not in unbelief will die.

Jesus continues to prove this point

16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

1. he died for the world. The whole world is bitten by the curse
2. Those who believe will not die, but will live (in this case, their life will be forever)

he who believes is not condemned,

He who DOES NOT BELIEVE is CONDEMNED ALREADY

Jesus did not die for the sin of unbelief or rejecting the gospel

 

[Cameron143]

Chiefly, rejecting Christ as their Savior. I don't see it as semantics. One is a just God allowing a person to choose to serve Him or walk away. The other is God determining some will go to hell not because of anything they have done but to apparently prove He is God. Just very odd to me. The Bible says God loves the sinner and wants no one to go to hell. That would be a lie if He determined who is hell bound.

Is rejecting Christ a sin?

 

[Cameron143]

On the basis of unbelief

He tells us this when he tells nicodemus how to be born again

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.

here he uses the example of moses and the serpent. Everyone who was bitten had to make a choice. Trust God through mpses and look up in faith and live, or in unbelief do not look up and die..

The whole world is bitten by the curse of death.. The ones who look up at christ in belief will live, the ones who do not in unbelief will die.

Jesus continues to prove this point

16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

1. he died for the world. The whole world is bitten by the curse
2. Those who believe will not die, but will live (in this case, their life will be forever)

he who believes is not condemned,

He who DOES NOT BELIEVE is CONDEMNED ALREADY

Jesus did not die for the sin of unbelief or rejecting the gospel

Is unbelief a sin?

 

[ButterflyJones]

If I may, Using your example of fair being equal, what is true of one is true of all. Lets look at this with regards to the eternal perspective

to be fair. God has to be equal to all. As in all have sinned and fall short. So in adam, all die. To be fair everyone must die

Then there is salvation.

To be faith God has to be equal to all. Which means everyone must have the chance to be saved, hence Christ died for all

in the end, God is deemed not only just but fair. Because the people who rejected him had just as much a fair chance to recieve him as the one who did recieve him.

Now if God only paid the price for a select group of people. And not the rest. When all are dead. Then we have an unfair God. and in this, an unjust God. Because justice shows no favorites. While it may seem God is still a just God because they deserved it anyway. In the eternal perspective, God will be questioned, because he was not a fair God and in the end showed favoritism. Imagine the husband That was chosen for hell, and the wife chosen for heaven. The wife is going to question why God chose here and not him, what made her so special God chose her. And what made the love of her life so un special God did not even give him a chance

all this will lead to another rebellion.

Thats why fatalism is so dangerous.

He doesn't send people to hell. They choose to rebel. Look at the abortion issue that came up with the supreme court. There were women in the streets openly mocking, tearing up baby dolls saying they were killing their babies. They have chosen their path. They have spit in the face of Almighty God. They don't believe in hell, but if they do not repent, one day they will find themselves there.

No, the Bible tells us at the judgement seat God will cast people into Hell. And who are they?
Those who were of natural carnal mind. For whom his Holy Spirit did not act to change that condition that sees the things of God as foolishness so they could come to repentance and respond then in that changed mind state to his leading them into his grace and salvation.

Without that act of Holy Spirit all would go to Hell. Not by choice.By God given carnal nature.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

He doesn't send people to hell. They choose to rebel. Look at the abortion issue that came up with the supreme court. There were women in the streets openly mocking, tearing up baby dolls saying they were killing their babies. They have chosen their path. They have spit in the face of Almighty God. They don't believe in hell, but if they do not repent, one day they will find themselves there.

Amen, they send themselves to hell

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Is unbelief a sin?

What did jesus say about those who do not believe?

Don‘t take my word for it take Jesus word..

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Chiefly, rejecting Christ as their Savior. I don't see it as semantics. One is a just God allowing a person to choose to serve Him or walk away. The other is God determining some will go to hell not because of anything they have done but to apparently prove He is God. Just very odd to me. The Bible says God loves the sinner and wants no one to go to hell. That would be a lie if He determined who is hell bound.

People need to understand, A soverign god has the right to chose to show love, even though in showing that love, things he does not want to happen will happen yet he is still soverign

 

[Cameron143]

What did jesus say about those who do not believe?

Don‘t take my word for it take Jesus word..

A simple yes or no would be helpful.

 

[Cameron143]

People need to understand, A soverign god has the right to chose to show love, even though in showing that love, things he does not want to happen will happen yet he is still soverign

True. But if that God is also just, He must still fulfill justice.

 

[rogerg]

You're adding to Scripture, that is not what the verse says. It's clear that it says the Savior to all, especially to those that believe. If you place your words in there the sentence doesn't make sense. " He's the Savior to all He planned to save, especially the ones He planned to save. That in no way makes sense.

No I'm not - you're not following the scriptural rules for interpretation.
Not everyone becomes saved at the same time. He is the Saviour of those who will become saved whenever that occurs. It makes perfect sense. Those who will not become saved, He is not the Saviour of - could that be clearer - not saved - then He is not their Saviour

 

[VARob]

Can we end this dialogue now?

This debate will never end until Christ returns and Calvinists will find out how wrong they were (IMO, ).

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

No I'm not - you're not following the scriptural rules for interpretation.
Not everyone becomes saved at the same time. He is the Saviour of those who will become saved whenever that occurs. It makes perfect sense. Those who will not become saved, He is not the Saviour of - could that be clearer - not saved - then He is not their Saviour

So the verses I quoted you're just ripping out of the Bible? No, it clearly says that He is the Savior for all. I understand why you can't admit that, but I believe the Word.

 

[BillG]

Is unbelief a sin?

I would say so

John 16:7-11
7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you.
8 And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 of sin, because they do not believe in Me;
10 of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more;
11 of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

A simple yes or no would be helpful.

It would only be helpful if it is in context.

yes it is a sin.

It is the ONLY sin Jesus did not die for. we know this because of what Jesus said, hence what I pointed you to Jesus words.

 

[Runningman]

Absolutely ridiculous irrational slander. You have NO IDEA of what every single person of the "OSAS crowd" is thinking. Or doing.
Unless you are some kind of Charles Xavier and are able to read the minds of everybody you are referring to.

Let's start with you then and see if I'm correct.

Is it required that Jesus is your Lord?

If Jesus is your Lord, are you required to obey his commandments?

Do you call Jesus Lord and then that you're saved by faith alone?

Do you call Jesus your Lord and then tell others we don't have to do anything?

I already know the answers, but to confirm my solid understanding, it would be helpful to get your answer.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

True. But if that God is also just, He must still fulfill justice.

He is more just if he is a far God

Him chosing to die for everyone, But only saving those who trust him is still Just.

it is more just that he died for everyone, even those who reject him, Because then they have no one to blame but himself. and in eternity. there will be no question about his love, because those who were outcast, he died for them also.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I would say so

John 16:7-11
7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you.
8 And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 of sin, because they do not believe in Me;
10 of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more;
11 of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.

Thank you Brother.. I should have remembered this verse!

 

[Cameron143]

I would say so

John 16:7-11
7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you.
8 And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 of sin, because they do not believe in Me;
10 of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more;
11 of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.

Of course it is.

The point I was leading up to is that God sends people to hell because of sin.

The argument being put forth is that Jesus paid for the sins of every person...past, present, and future. And that unbelief and not sin is the reason that people whose sins have been paid for is the reason.

The reason no one answered is because if unbelief is a sin, then it too must have been paid for and there is no reason for them to be in hell if you follow their argument to its conclusion.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Let's start with you then and see if I'm correct.

Is it required that Jesus is your Lord?

If Jesus is your Lord, are you required to obey his commandments?

Do you call Jesus Lord and then that you're saved by faith alone?

Do you call Jesus your Lord and then tell others we don't have to do anything?

I already know the answers, but to confirm my solid understanding, it would be helpful to get your answer.

if you are not perfect. You have failed to make the requirement of obeying the commands.

stop watering down Gods law. then telling people how good you are..

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Of course it is.

The point I was leading up to is that God sends people to hell because of sin.

The argument being put forth is that Jesus paid for the sins of every person...past, present, and future. And that unbelief and not sin is the reason that people whose sins have been paid for is the reason.

The reason no one answered is because if unbelief is a sin, then it too must have been paid for and there is no reason for them to be in hell if you follow their argument to its conclusion.

He who believes is NOT CONDEMNED

He who does not believe is CONDEMNED ALREADY

seriously now. why do people end up in hell?

because they were not chosen?

or because they did not believe?