Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

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posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#5,361
Jul 31, 2013
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#5,361
cv5 said:
Excellent reference bro.....

Rom 5:17
For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive G2983 abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.
Rom 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Rom 5:19
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

G2983 lambanō
  1. to take
    1. to take with the hand, lay hold of, any person or thing in order to use it
      1. to take up a thing to be carried
      2. to take upon one's self
    2. to take in order to carry away
      1. without the notion of violence, i,e to remove, take away
    3. to take what is one's own, to take to one's self, to make one's own
      1. to claim, procure, for one's self
        1. to associate with one's self as companion, attendant
      2. of that which when taken is not let go, to seize, to lay hold of, apprehend
      3. to take by craft (our catch, used of hunters, fisherman, etc.), to circumvent one by fraud
      4. to take to one's self, lay hold upon, take possession of, i.e. to appropriate to one's self
      5. catch at, reach after, strive to obtain
      6. to take a thing due, to collect, gather (tribute)
    4. to take
      1. to admit, receive
      2. to receive what is offered
      3. not to refuse or reject
      4. to receive a person, give him access to one's self,
        1. to regard any one's power, rank, external circumstances, and on that account to do some injustice or neglect something
    5. to take, to choose, select
    6. to take beginning, to prove anything, to make a trial of, to experience
  2. to receive (what is given), to gain, get, obtain, to get back
Click to expand...
Amen!!

Let me share,
a quick way to get there:

Isaiah 53:12
Therefore I will divide Him a portion with the great, And He shall divide the spoil with the strong, Because He poured out His soul unto death, And He was numbered with the transgressors, And He bore the sin of many, And made intercession for the transgressors.

1 John 2:2
And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#5,362
Jul 31, 2013
37,840
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#5,362
cv5 said:
Excellent reference bro.....

Rom 5:17
For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive G2983 abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.
Rom 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Rom 5:19
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

G2983 lambanō
  1. to take
    1. to take with the hand, lay hold of, any person or thing in order to use it
      1. to take up a thing to be carried
      2. to take upon one's self
    2. to take in order to carry away
      1. without the notion of violence, i,e to remove, take away
    3. to take what is one's own, to take to one's self, to make one's own
      1. to claim, procure, for one's self
        1. to associate with one's self as companion, attendant
      2. of that which when taken is not let go, to seize, to lay hold of, apprehend
      3. to take by craft (our catch, used of hunters, fisherman, etc.), to circumvent one by fraud
      4. to take to one's self, lay hold upon, take possession of, i.e. to appropriate to one's self
      5. catch at, reach after, strive to obtain
      6. to take a thing due, to collect, gather (tribute)
    4. to take
      1. to admit, receive
      2. to receive what is offered
      3. not to refuse or reject
      4. to receive a person, give him access to one's self,
        1. to regard any one's power, rank, external circumstances, and on that account to do some injustice or neglect something
    5. to take, to choose, select
    6. to take beginning, to prove anything, to make a trial of, to experience
  2. to receive (what is given), to gain, get, obtain, to get back
Click to expand...
What you put is exactly this:

2 Kings 6:1-7
And the sons of the prophets said to Elisha, "See now, the place where we dwell with you is too small for us. Please, let us go to the Jordan, and let every man take a beam from there, and let us make there a place where we may dwell." So he answered, "Go." Then one said, "Please consent to go with your servants." And he answered, "I will go." So he went with them. And when they came to the Jordan, they cut down trees. But as one was cutting down a tree, the iron [ax head] fell into the water; and he cried out and said, "Alas, master! For it was borrowed." So the man of God said, "Where did it fall?" And he showed him the place. So he cut off a stick, and threw [it] in there; and he made the iron float. Therefore he said, "Pick [it] up for yourself." So he reached out his hand and took it.



Salvation is come, and there is only one thing lacking for all:
WE HAVE TO PICK IT UP!

Believe!



:love:
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#5,363
Nov 20, 2018
23,004
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#5,363
posthuman said:
What you put is exactly this:

2 Kings 6:1-7
And the sons of the prophets said to Elisha, "See now, the place where we dwell with you is too small for us. Please, let us go to the Jordan, and let every man take a beam from there, and let us make there a place where we may dwell." So he answered, "Go." Then one said, "Please consent to go with your servants." And he answered, "I will go." So he went with them. And when they came to the Jordan, they cut down trees. But as one was cutting down a tree, the iron [ax head] fell into the water; and he cried out and said, "Alas, master! For it was borrowed." So the man of God said, "Where did it fall?" And he showed him the place. So he cut off a stick, and threw [it] in there; and he made the iron float. Therefore he said, "Pick [it] up for yourself." So he reached out his hand and took it.



Salvation is come, and there is only one thing lacking for all:
WE HAVE TO PICK IT UP!

Believe!



:love:
Click to expand...
I love this place lol.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#5,364
Jul 31, 2013
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#5,364
ButterflyJones said:
Christian Universalists , Christian Universalism, are not sustained by the Bible as you also know.
It's understandable that using scripture to prove that is not well received.
Click to expand...
Unitarians make post puke a little in his mouth.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#5,365
Jul 31, 2013
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#5,365
Runningman said:
Most of Protestant Christianity and the Catholics are in lockstep agreement about original sin.
Click to expand...
By which you mean Romans 5:12?

Yes, we unashamedly believe Romans 5:12.

Don't you?

Have you noticed Romans 3:9-20?
It's kinda conclusive.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#5,368
Mar 1, 2022
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#5,368
posthuman said:
I think it is a good point that these disciples were not called 'unsaved' but 'foolish and slow to believe' while they didn't yet understand

@Mem

Make sense?
Not unbelieving. Slow.
And after that rebuke - praise God! - He began to explain to them :coffee::love:

((love you both))
Click to expand...
They were definitely saved. But their understanding still needed to be opened. This highlights the need for revelation and not mere human reason.
If this is true for the redeemed, how much more for those with only natural minds.
 
R

Runningman

Banned
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Mar 4, 2020
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#5,369
Blade said:
I don't think he plays for or with the Tee-Ball team. I think its called I could be wrong "God's All Star"...you know members only. "smile"
Click to expand...
So a tee-baller beat someone from the all star team? Isn't that worse? :oops:
 
R

Runningman

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Mar 4, 2020
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posthuman said:
He is stating here that He is greater than anyone Psalm 82:6 refers to.

That He is - unlike every other man - from heaven, and sent to earth. Above every so-called 'god'

We are from below; He is from above.
Click to expand...
Jesus proved that those to whom the word of God came are "gods" in a sense. Jesus proved that he is the Son of God because God told Jesus what to say and do.

John 10
34Jesus replied, “Is it not written in your Law: ‘I have said you are gods’? 35If he called them gods to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken— 36then what about the One whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world? How then can you accuse Me of blasphemy for stating that I am the Son of God?
37If I am not doing the works of My Father, then do not believe Me. 38But if I am doing them, even though you do not believe Me, believe the works themselves, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I am in the Father.”
 
R

Runningman

Banned
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Mar 4, 2020
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#5,371
posthuman said:
By objective standards cv5 is batting quite a bit better than you.

Just to let you know.

I love how we are all buddies lol
Click to expand...
You're his peer so I am not surprised you would say that, though I personally disagree. Just because I hold the minority belief in this particular thread, don't be deceived by popular opposition. Even if there were a billion of you arguing at me, I would still take you on, even publicly and nationally televised. Why? Because I have the Bible on my side. Roaring opposition will never silence the scripture. Thanks buddy. :)
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#5,372
Jul 31, 2013
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#5,372
Runningman said:
According to the author, grace is unmerited love and favor, but for something to be unmerited, it would require absolutely nothing from us, not even faith, and it wouldn't matter if we sinned in the first place, and the entire point of Christ's sacrifice would be defeated and was wholly unnecessary since we have unmerited love and favor.
Click to expand...
Whether you believe it or not, He died for you.

Grace.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
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Jul 31, 2013
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#5,374
Runningman said:
36then what about the One whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world?
Click to expand...
Previously discussed.

He is declaring Himself greater than anyone Psalm 82:6 speaks of, and that is the crux of the rejection of their argument.

If you were correct you could just as well declare yourself equal to God.
You're not.

Strike 2
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
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Jul 31, 2013
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#5,375
As I have said to you many times now @Runningman

Until you understand Who He is, you cannot understand scripture.

That's why we are here: for your benefit.

This isn't a 'fight' or an 'argument' or 'contest'
This is your family trying to help you.

Knowing Him is prerequisite to any meaningful conversation about the security of the salvation He wrought.
 
R

Runningman

Banned
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Mar 4, 2020
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#5,376
posthuman said:
Previously discussed.

He is declaring Himself greater than anyone Psalm 82:6 speaks of, and that is the crux of the rejection of their argument.

If you were correct you could just as well declare yourself equal to God.
You're not.

Strike 2
Click to expand...
No that's not what he's doing. He's refuting the accusation of claiming to be God. That's pretty clear.

I was never counting your strikes, but there are many.
 
cv5

cv5

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Nov 20, 2018
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#5,377
Runningman said:
No that's not what he's doing. He's refuting the accusation of claiming to be God. That's pretty clear.

I was never counting your strikes, but there are many.
Click to expand...
Strike 3.......you're out.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#5,378
Jul 31, 2013
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#5,378
posthuman said:
He is declaring Himself greater than anyone Psalm 82:6 speaks of, and that is the crux of the rejection of their argument.
Click to expand...
id est:

He IS The Word.

John chapter 1 isn't nonsense.
John did not pull chapter 1 out of thin air.
God knew what He was doing when He wrote His book.

if those to whom the Word came to are called 'gods' ((but will die like men - read the Psalm)) - how on earth can you call it blasphemous when the Word Himself declares Himself equal to God?
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
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Jul 31, 2013
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#5,379
Runningman said:
He's refuting the accusation of claiming to be God.
Click to expand...
If you were correct verse 36 would not exist.

It specifies a distinction between Him and everyone in Psalm 82:6, tacitly that distinction being that He is greater than all who are called 'gods'

He is The Word
 
R

Runningman

Banned
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Mar 4, 2020
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#5,380
posthuman said:
If you were correct verse 36 would not exist.
Click to expand...
then what about the One whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world = the Son of God

Verse 36 Jesus said "How then can you accuse Me of blasphemy for stating that I am the Son of God?"
 
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