Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

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rogerg

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Jul 13, 2021
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Galatians is to the body of Christ.

Luke is to the Jews. Jesus was speaking concerning the Jews.

The RCC priest is John Calvin.
Spiritually speaking, the brethren are those who belong to Christ regardless of any other earthly human affiliation.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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so, after 2 years and over 6800 posts, if o s a s has not been debunked by now, it' s not going to be.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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So, do you think that good news or bad?
so, i am not o s a s.

we are saved by faith and trust in Christ. nothing else.

but, if one chooses to believe, then one can one day reverse that choice.
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
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so, i am not o s a s.

we are saved by faith and trust in Christ. nothing else.

but, if one chooses to believe, then one can one day reverse that choice.
Okay, but just to be precise, we are saved by the faith OF Christ (Christ's faith) by which we believe/ come to trust, IN Christ.

[Gal 2:16 KJV] 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith OF Jesus Christ, even we have believed IN Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith OF Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
 

Nehemiah6

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Jul 18, 2017
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Okay, but just to be precise, we are saved by the faith OF Christ (Christ's faith) by which we believe/ come to trust, IN Christ.
"The faith of Christ" has been used to misrepresent faith. It is simply a matter of word usage, and that should really be "faith in Christ". God does not need to have faith in Himself, and He has given man the Gospel to generate faith in Christ (Rom 10:17).
 
Sep 23, 2023
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Okay, but just to be precise, we are saved by the faith OF Christ (Christ's faith) by which we believe/ come to trust, IN Christ.

[Gal 2:16 KJV] 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith OF Jesus Christ, even we have believed IN Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith OF Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
The Greek for "faith", there, is also the Greek for "faithfulness", which is the better translation.
How would Christ's "faith" justify anyone?
But to say "the faithfulness of Christ" justifies makes sense--He obeyed God faithfully, and "was raised for our justification".
 

brightfame52

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Nov 21, 2020
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@DJT_47

what is it you're saved from?
The penalty of sin, death. That being the case, God will not charge the saved with any sin that results in their death, they are free from the penalty of sin. Those for whom Christ died He obtained for them, in their name, eternal redemption Heb 9:12

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

The word redemption here is the greek word lýtrōsis:

  1. a ransoming, redemption
  2. deliverance, esp. from the penalty of sin

So they are saved from the penalty of all their sins, and that forever !
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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"The faith of Christ" has been used to misrepresent faith. It is simply a matter of word usage, and that should really be "faith in Christ". God does not need to have faith in Himself, and He has given man the Gospel to generate faith in Christ (Rom 10:17).
And yet, Christ had faith, he lived by faith, he is the only one who was righteous in his faith. He was completely obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. God’s righteousness was on display through the faith of Jesus Christ. I beseech thee to come back to the KJV and believe it. Believe every word. Come back brother from your doubt.

Faith come by hearing and hearing by the word of God.
 

DJT_47

Active member
Oct 20, 2022
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No, through Christ, we're saved from ALL sins, past, present, future. When Christ saves, by His offering, He made payment on our behalf for past sin. In addition, we are also taken out from being under law relative to salvation, and therefore, not being law, current and future sin cannot be assessed against us, so in toto, there is no judgement that can levied against any who He saves.

[Heb 7:25 KJV]
25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

in the below verse, the "give" is in the present tense; that is, His sheep have eternal life.

[Jhn 10:27-29 KJV]
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave [them] me, is greater than all; and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father's hand.


Those who believe, are those ordained to eternal life.
[Act 13:48 KJV] 48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
It's not automatic. If you sin after you're initially saved, you must repent to he forgiven. You can lose your salvation.
 

DJT_47

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Oct 20, 2022
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@DJT_47



The penalty of sin, death. That being the case, God will not charge the saved with any sin that results in their death, they are free from the penalty of sin. Those for whom Christ died He obtained for them, in their name, eternal redemption Heb 9:12

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

The word redemption here is the greek word lýtrōsis:

  1. a ransoming, redemption
  2. deliverance, esp. from the penalty of sin

So they are saved from the penalty of all their sins, and that forever !
Read the account of Simon the sorcerer in Acts 8. He was converted, he believed and was baptized but because he wanted to purchase the power that the apostles had and sinned thereby, was told to repent or perish. Subsequent to conversion if one sins, it requires repentance.
 

brightfame52

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Nov 21, 2020
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Read the account of Simon the sorcerer in Acts 8. He was converted, he believed and was baptized but because he wanted to purchase the power that the apostles had and sinned thereby, was told to repent or perish. Subsequent to conversion if one sins, it requires repentance.
Sorry friend, the ones Christ died for are redeemed from the penalty of sin.
 

rogerg

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Jul 13, 2021
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The Greek for "faith", there, is also the Greek for "faithfulness", which is the better translation.
How would Christ's "faith" justify anyone?
But to say "the faithfulness of Christ" justifies makes sense--He obeyed God faithfully, and "was raised for our justification".
For Christ to have "faithfulness", it had to have come from His "faith" as its byproduct. Don't misunderstand me, I definitely agree that He was faithful - perfectly so- but that was as an out-growth (for lack of a better word) or result of His faith.
It may be your opinion that "faithfulness" is a better translation and maybe it is, but we are told that "faith" has substance and therefore has spiritual presence. It can only be reckoned to someone, if it has substance. Faith also is evidence. I do not claim any expertise in Greek, but from what I can determine, faith and faithful are different words (see definitions below) implying different things.

[Heb 11:1 KJV] 1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Because Christ's faith was/is imputed to those whom He saves, as part of His faith also is His righteousness and His works which are also reckoned with it to someone, and therefore, when reckoned, it is to God as through it were their faith, righteousness and works. That faith comes upon them from becoming born again as a fruit of the Spirit.

[Gal 2:16 KJV] 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

[Phl 3:9 KJV] 9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

[Rom 4:9 KJV] 9 [Cometh] this blessedness then upon the circumcision [only], or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

[Gal 5:22 KJV] 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

Faith:
pistis (Key)
Pronunciation
pis'-tis
Part of Speech
feminine noun


Faithful:
pistos (Key)
Pronunciation
pis-tos'
Part of Speech
adjective
 

rogerg

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Jul 13, 2021
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It's not automatic. If you sin after you're initially saved, you must repent to he forgiven. You can lose your salvation.
No, don't think so. True repentance comes to someone from God as a gift. That repentance is manifested in repenting from one's dead works unto the trusting of Christ as Saviour. That kind of repentance can only be given to someone by God it is not of oneself.

[Rom 2:4 KJV]
4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
[Heb 6:1 KJV]
1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
 

rogerg

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Jul 13, 2021
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"The faith of Christ" has been used to misrepresent faith. It is simply a matter of word usage, and that should really be "faith in Christ". God does not need to have faith in Himself, and He has given man the Gospel to generate faith in Christ (Rom 10:17).
No, it is definitely NOT faith "in" Christ - faith "of" Christ is definitely the correct rendering.
Why? because "faith of Christ" is the genitive case, denoting ownership; that is, it is Christ's faith.
"faith in Christ" on the other hand, is not in the genitive case and therefore does not show ownership, unless, that is,
the verse is referring to faith that happens to exist within Christ Himself (again that meaning His faith), not a faith towards Christ.
You can distinguish which one is appropriate by looking at the word's case in its definition.
 

DJT_47

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Oct 20, 2022
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No, don't think so. True repentance comes to someone from God as a gift. That repentance is manifested in repenting from one's dead works unto the trusting of Christ as Saviour. That kind of repentance can only be given to someone by God it is not of oneself.

[Rom 2:4 KJV]
4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
[Heb 6:1 KJV]
1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Out of context scriptures you've cited. You can think what you like but the scriptural facts remain that salvation can be lost. A casual study of the Hebrew letter will bear that out. The newly converted Hebrews were warned about the dangers of renouncing Christ and embracing again their old religious beliefs.
 

rogerg

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Jul 13, 2021
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Out of context scriptures you've cited. You can think what you like but the scriptural facts remain that salvation can be lost. A casual study of the Hebrew letter will bear that out. The newly converted Hebrews were warned about the dangers of renouncing Christ and embracing again their old religious beliefs.
Salvation cannot be lost. If it could, it would mean that Christ's offering was insufficient to bring forth eternal salvation but only
a transient salvation.

What do you think these verses mean:

[1Pe 1:4-5 KJV]
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

[Phl 1:6 KJV]
6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform [it] until the day of Jesus Christ:

By mentioning Hebrews, I suspect that you are referring to Hebrews 6. To understand the verses in question, read verse 9.
It clearly demonstrates that for those saved, the preceding verses do not apply.
 

mailmandan

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Apr 7, 2014
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Read the account of Simon the sorcerer in Acts 8. He was converted, he believed and was baptized but because he wanted to purchase the power that the apostles had and sinned thereby, was told to repent or perish. Subsequent to conversion if one sins, it requires repentance.
Simon the sorcerer is said to have “believed and was baptized” at the preaching of Philip (Acts 8:13) but later, when Simon offers the apostles money to have their ability to impart the Holy Spirit (verses 18–19), he is rebuked by Peter. Peter answered: "May your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money! You have no part or share in this ministry, because your heart is not right before God. 22 Repent therefore of this your wickedness, and pray God if perhaps the thought of your heart may be forgiven you. 23 For I see that you are poisoned by bitterness and bound by iniquity. (verses 20-24)

You called that saved? Even though we read that Simon "believed," the remainder of the verse hints at the true object of his belief: "the miracles and signs which were done." No saving belief in Christ.