Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

[The_Watchers_2017]

To teach against the eternal security of the believer, its an attack on Christ being the Author of Eternal Salvation, which He gives to them He died for Heb 5:9
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;.

if you do not obey God, then He cannot be Your Personal Author of Eternal Salvation.

What then, are God's Commandments, that must be Obeyed?

He said, DO NOT SIN!
Do NOT LOOK AT A WOMAN in LUST!
there's many here and we both know this.

So, if God says, DO NOT SIN.
and we must Obey in order to have Eternal Salvation.
then each time we SIN, this is being Broken.

so, how can one break the Commands of God through Disobedience and claim they have Eternal Salvation.


i am merely going off this specific Verse, 9, that you have presented.

 

[wattie]

if you do not obey God, then He cannot be Your Personal Author of Eternal Salvation.

What then, are God's Commandments, that must be Obeyed?

He said, DO NOT SIN!
Do NOT LOOK AT A WOMAN in LUST!
there's many here and we both know this.

So, if God says, DO NOT SIN.
and we must Obey in order to have Eternal Salvation.
then each time we SIN, this is being Broken.

so, how can one break the Commands of God through Disobedience and claim they have Eternal Salvation.


i am merely going off this specific Verse, 9, that you have presented.

Believers sin all the time unintentionally when not intentionally. We can sin less, by God's grace..and that is the right response to being given eternal life, but we can never be completely sinless until we get to heaven.

This is why salvation is OSAS because there is nothing inherintly good in us, and all good we do for Jesus is from us who a moment later sins when we don't know we are sinning.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Is that how you feel about the Truth and Efficacy of Christs Death ?

No. That's how I feel about your MISREPRESENTATION of the Gospel. You should have repented of this nonsense by now. Christ's supreme and perfect sacrifice was sufficient for ALL MANKIND.

 

[Brightfame63]

Lukewarmness with the Loadiceans is a church losing the place of the Holy Spirit 'in the midst' of them. Not individuals having eternal life taken away.

Difference between indwelling Vs 'in the midst'

I believe Jesus spewing someone out of His mouth because of lukewarmness is a good indication of someone losing their salvation.

 

[Brightfame63]

if you do not obey God, then He cannot be Your Personal Author of Eternal Salvation.

What then, are God's Commandments, that must be Obeyed?

He said, DO NOT SIN!
Do NOT LOOK AT A WOMAN in LUST!
there's many here and we both know this.

So, if God says, DO NOT SIN.
and we must Obey in order to have Eternal Salvation.
then each time we SIN, this is being Broken.

so, how can one break the Commands of God through Disobedience and claim they have Eternal Salvation.


i am merely going off this specific Verse, 9, that you have presented.

"To teach against the eternal security of the believer, its an attack on Christ being the Author of Eternal Salvation, which He gives to them He died for Heb 5:9" No it isn't. But, to preach and teach that a person once a person accepts Christ as Lord and Savior that they can not ever lose their salvation is the same as saying that a person no longer has the free will to choose. A person always has the choice of choosing to serve sin or walk away from Christ, both before and after being saved.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Believers sin all the time unintentionally when not intentionally. We can sin less, by God's grace..and that is the right response to being given eternal life, but we can never be completely sinless until we get to heaven.

This is why salvation is OSAS because there is nothing inherintly good in us, and all good we do for Jesus is from us who a moment later sins when we don't know we are sinning.

i am pretty sure most Christians SIN on Purpose.
agreed, because it happens to me, we do indeed SIN not intentionally.
but this Verse said Those WHO OBEY GOD.
so, this is about the SINS we commit ON PURPOSE.

and many who follow OSAS do SIN, on Purpose, thinking it's already Covered by the BLOOD of Jesus.

 

[wattie]

I believe Jesus spewing someone out of His mouth because of lukewarmness is a good indication of someone losing their salvation.

In that case.. it would be an entire congregation losing salvation.. each and every one of them.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

"To teach against the eternal security of the believer, its an attack on Christ being the Author of Eternal Salvation, which He gives to them He died for Heb 5:9" No it isn't. But, to preach and teach that a person once a person accepts Christ as Lord and Savior that they can not ever lose their salvation is the same as saying that a person no longer has the free will to choose. A person always has the choice of choosing to serve sin or walk away from Christ, both before and after being saved.

if this Verse is correct, which it is, Eternal Security, is BASED UPON OBEYING God.

we ALL SIN on Purpose at least 10 times per day outside the hundreds of silly sins we do accidentally. car cuts you off and you end up yelling at the driver calling him a moron. You SINNED, even when it was not on [purpose] but from a knee jerk reaction to someone else's stupidity.

but Verse 9 holds a [[IF YOU DO THIS]]...{{YOU DO NOT GET THIS}}, so, this puts the Responsibility of OSAS upon us.

God, He ain't Leaving us.
but when we CHOOSE to SIN, we CHOOSE to not OBEY GOD.
and Verse 9 holds a Action to Reaction proposition that MUST BE MET, and MET by US!!

 

[wattie]

i am pretty sure most Christians SIN on Purpose.
agreed, because it happens to me, we do indeed SIN not intentionally.
but this Verse said Those WHO OBEY GOD.
so, this is about the SINS we commit ON PURPOSE.

and many who follow OSAS do SIN, on Purpose, thinking it's already Covered by the BLOOD of Jesus.

But the same applies to many who believe salvation can be lossed. They also sin on purpose. Actually many sin out of fear because they are mentally unstable from not knowing if they have eternal life or not. I know many christians like this.

The thing is .. we are talking about where the ownership of salvation lies. If it's owned by Jesus.. not us.. then there is no way it's getting broken. If it is owned by us.. then it is a very 'yo yo' type of salvation that depends on our behaviour.

But anyways.. I've posted with you on this before and we aint gonna move from our positions so I'll stop here. Blessings.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

But the same applies to many who believe salvation can be lossed. They also sin on purpose. Actually many sin out of fear because they are mentally unstable from not knowing if they have eternal life or not. I know many christians like this.

The thing is .. we are talking about where the ownership of salvation lies. If it's owned by Jesus.. not us.. then there is no way it's getting broken. If it is owned by us.. then it is a very 'yo yo' type of salvation that depends on our behaviour.

But anyways.. I've posted with you on this before and we aint gonna move from our positions so I'll stop here. Blessings.

the Owner of Salvation said it is ours [[if]] we Obey.

and the ones, who believe otherwise, are Repenting.
unlike the ONEs, who think all sins, were covered the moment they were saved, including, sins not even committed yet. so naturally, each time they sin from that moment on, without Repenting, is only disobeying Verse 9 and NOT OBEYING God.

 

[Nehemiah6]

A person always has the choice of choosing to serve sin or walk away from Christ, both before and after being saved.

Purely hypothetical. No genuine Christian walks away from God. And do you seriously think that God and Christ simply stand by and let this happen? In all this vain discussion, nobody says a word about how God deals with sinning saints. But the Bible does tell us that God deals with sinning saints, so that they repent and forsake their sins or die prematurely without losing their salvation. The loss of salvation is never an issue because of the simple fact that eternal life is a GIFT of God. And the New Birth is irreversible. Which shows what a poor understanding of salvation exists among Christians.

 

[brightfame52]

No. That's how I feel about your MISREPRESENTATION of the Gospel. You should have repented of this nonsense by now. Christ's supreme and perfect sacrifice was sufficient for ALL MANKIND.

No its how you feel about the efficacy of Christs saving death, that it isnt the author of eternal salvation. You just excuse it as me misrepresenting the Truth, but thats not going to help you.

 

[turbosixx]

So, I what should have also included in my prior post (but was only on my first cup of coffee), is that the sheep of Matthew 25, 33 - 34, represent exactly the same sheep as identified in my prior post to you, which, were the chosen of God as sheep from before the foundation of the world.

In the following verse (the verse immediately after the one you used as proof text), notice the "for you". So, not only was the kingdom prepared by God from the foundation of the world, but it was prepared for, only for, those of the " for you", and was created for the "for you from the foundation of the world - hope that make sense - if not, let me know and I'll try to clarify. This also means that those whom Jesus was specifically addressing, were of the "for you", too, and if of the "for you", then they were His sheep, which brings us back to Mat 10:16 - that His chosen, from before the foundation of the world, are His sheep.


[Mat 25:33-34 KJV]
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

In the following verse, notice that the "for you" of above - or the "chosen us" of this verse - are they whom God had chosen "before the foundation of the world". So therefore, all sheep were chosen as sheep, from before the foundation of the world.

[Eph 1:4 KJV]
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Sorry I haven't gotten back sooner, been busy.

May I respectfully suggest you're reading into Matt. 25 what you want it to say to you. I strongly suggest going to the beginning of the chapter to help better understand the judgement scene which is the culmination of His point. He tells two parables, and He doesn't use sheep. Based on the context of the chapter, I personally don't see how it's possible to come to any other conclusion than what they did or did not do determines their fate. I could be reading into what I want it to say as well. Although I would it rather read as you see it.

 

[brightfame52]

@Brightfame63

No it isn't. But, to preach and teach that a person once a person accepts Christ as Lord and Savior that they can not ever lose their salvation is the same as saying that a person no longer has the free will to choose. A person always has the choice of choosing to serve sin or walk away from Christ, both before and after being saved.

More attack on Christs saving death and putting eternal salvation in the hands and will of man, which frankly is blasphemous, even though you may not intend that.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

if you do not obey God, then He cannot be Your Personal Author of Eternal Salvation.

What then, are God's Commandments, that must be Obeyed?

He said, DO NOT SIN!
Do NOT LOOK AT A WOMAN in LUST!
there's many here and we both know this.

So, if God says, DO NOT SIN.
and we must Obey in order to have Eternal Salvation.
then each time we SIN, this is being Broken.

so, how can one break the Commands of God through Disobedience and claim they have Eternal Salvation.


i am merely going off this specific Verse, 9, that you have presented.

you must ask the question

are we under law or under grace

if under law. your right, we could not have eternal salvation. in fact, a preist has to make atonement for us by sacrificing a lamb without spot.

But if we are under grace, then we could never earn salvation to begin with. If we can;t earn it we can't lose it. so we come to the throne of Grace to our abba father. confess it. and move on.. He has things for us to do. we can't be wallowing in despair because we sinned.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I believe Jesus spewing someone out of His mouth because of lukewarmness is a good indication of someone losing their salvation.

someone?

He spit the CHURCH in that geographic location out. The church lost its light..

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

"To teach against the eternal security of the believer, its an attack on Christ being the Author of Eternal Salvation, which He gives to them He died for Heb 5:9" No it isn't. But, to preach and teach that a person once a person accepts Christ as Lord and Savior that they can not ever lose their salvation is the same as saying that a person no longer has the free will to choose. A person always has the choice of choosing to serve sin or walk away from Christ, both before and after being saved.

just because a person can does not mean they will

We don;t just unrepent and freely walk away from the great salvation that saved us,

well unless we never really had faith to begin with. and thus never experienced Gods true love..

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

i am pretty sure most Christians SIN on Purpose.
agreed, because it happens to me, we do indeed SIN not intentionally.
but this Verse said Those WHO OBEY GOD.
so, this is about the SINS we commit ON PURPOSE.

and many who follow OSAS do SIN, on Purpose, thinking it's already Covered by the BLOOD of Jesus.

any sin we do we do on purpose

Especially a believe, because the HS is there to direct us..

I would stop excusing my sin as oopsies..

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

the Owner of Salvation said it is ours [[if]] we Obey.

and the ones, who believe otherwise, are Repenting.
unlike the ONEs, who think all sins, were covered the moment they were saved, including, sins not even committed yet. so naturally, each time they sin from that moment on, without Repenting, is only disobeying Verse 9 and NOT OBEYING God.

No,

the owner of salvation is Gods

His death, His promise, His assurance. His gift..

 

[Sipsey]

No,

the owner of salvation is Gods

His death, His promise, His assurance. His gift..

The oft rehashed debate of what part we play in our eternal security seems to never be concluded. It ain’t eternal if it depends on us. We are all hypocrite's, our hearts are only occasionally pure, and I’ve yet to meet one that loves God with every fiber of their being for an entire day. I look to Scripture for any answer to any issue in this life, and it’s always there.
Who in those many pages was able to live a sinless life but Christ? Moses didn’t even get to set foot in the ‘Promised Land,” Samson acted like an idiot, so did Solomon and David, yet many on here think they can do better. Our hearts are deceitful. AS a man thinketh-he is. Who here has perfect thoughts 24/7? The Law shows us we are not and cannot be good enough. WE need a Saviour-period-He does the saving.