Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

[rogerg]

Sorry I haven't gotten back sooner, been busy.

May I respectfully suggest you're reading into Matt. 25 what you want it to say to you. I strongly suggest going to the beginning of the chapter to help better understand the judgement scene which is the culmination of His point. He tells two parables, and He doesn't use sheep. Based on the context of the chapter, I personally don't see how it's possible to come to any other conclusion than what they did or did not do determines their fate. I could be reading into what I want it to say as well. Although I would it rather read as you see it.

No problem regarding the timing.
Sorry, I'm lost. If you would and to make this easy, please include the verses you have in mind and
how you interpret them - it would be appreciated - thanks.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

The oft rehashed debate of what part we play in our eternal security seems to never be concluded. It ain’t eternal if it depends on us. We are all hypocrite's, our hearts are only occasionally pure, and I’ve yet to meet one that loves God with every fiber of their being for an entire day. I look to Scripture for any answer to any issue in this life, and it’s always there.
Who in those many pages was able to live a sinless life but Christ? Moses didn’t even get to set foot in the ‘Promised Land,” Samson acted like an idiot, so did Solomon and David, yet many on here think they can do better. Our hearts are deceitful. AS a man thinketh-he is. Who here has perfect thoughts 24/7? The Law shows us we are not and cannot be good enough. WE need a Saviour-period-He does the saving.

The problem is, much like the jews. We look at laws. and say, Well i do not do this or that or that (murder, sex, porn, drugs) so I am a good person.. As long as I keep this up. I will be saved.. But if I crash and burn and do one of these. I am lost

They do not understand what sin is..

 

[mailmandan]

The problem is, much like the jews. We look at laws. and say, Well i do not do this or that or that (murder, sex, porn, drugs) so I am a good person.. As long as I keep this up. I will be saved.. But if I crash and burn and do one of these. I am lost

They do not understand what sin is..

(Luke 18:9-14. Romans 10:1-4)

 

[Jimbone]

There are three legs upon which OSAS stands or falls. Do these verses mean what they supposedly mean, or have they been misunderstood and misapplied? When we examine them next to other scriptures that clearly contradict them will they hold up? Let's see.

First, 1 John 2:19—"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us."

The OSAS interpretation of this verse says that those who "went out" were never in Christ to begin with; they were never saved. However, I suggest there's another meaning that conforms very well with other scriptures. This view says that those who "went out" were indeed saved and in Christ at one point, but were simply not as committed as the others. It's in this sense that they were not "of us." These are those spoken of in the parable of the sower (Matthew 13:5-6): "Other seeds fell on rocky ground, where they did not have much soil, and immediately they sprang up, since they had no depth of soil, but when the sun rose they were scorched. And since they had no root, they withered away." It sprang up, it had life to start with; but it "withered away."

Jesus' explanation of this passage is found in Matthew 13:20-21—"As for what was sown on rocky ground, this is the one who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy, yet he has no root in himself, but endures for a while, and when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately he falls away."

Second is 1 John 3:6—"No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him."

This seems pretty cut and dried: if someone turns away back into sin they never knew Him. But we have to understand this in light of other scriptures that contradict it. Those who "never knew Him," never had a proper understanding of Him. This corresponds to the first group in the parable of the sower: "When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart." The seed was "sown in his heart," but was snatched away because of this person's lack of understanding.

Third is John 10:28—"I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand." I agree with this verse: no one can indeed snatch them out of His hand. However, the person himself can walk away. For this reason I prefer the phrase "forfeit salvation" to "lose salvation."

Now let's look at some scriptures that plainly talk about walking away and falling away. I'm not going to use Hebrews because Hebrews is fiercely objected to by those who advocate OSAS, even though is has many relevant warnings about falling away. But Hebrews isn't necessary—there are plenty of others.

2 Peter 2:20-21—"For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them."

This passage clearly illustrates a person who was once in Christ but who turned their back on Him. This shows a conscious action on the part of the one turning back. These verses correspond with Luke 9:26: "Jesus said to him, 'No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God.' "

Matthew 24:10—"And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another."

1 Timothy 4:1—"Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons."

Matthew 24:13—"But the one who endures to the end will be saved."

Why say that those who endure to the end will be saved? If one cannot forfeit their salvation, why didn't He say "But all who have prayed the sinners prayer will be saved?"

Luke 9:26—"Jesus said to him, 'No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God.' "

Already mentioned, Luke 9:26 is a clear warning from the Lord about falling away.

I see how much you have to ADD to the scripture here that it doesn't actually say, to make it say what YOU want. I'm not even saying if I agree or disagree with you here, but if you can't look at this and see you are adding here, I don't know what to tell you. Again my only point here is that when I read this comment the fact you were adding screamed out to me enough to point it out. Careful brother.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

you must ask the question

are we under law or under grace

if under law. your right, we could not have eternal salvation. in fact, a preist has to make atonement for us by sacrificing a lamb without spot.

But if we are under grace, then we could never earn salvation to begin with. If we can;t earn it we can't lose it. so we come to the throne of Grace to our abba father. confess it. and move on.. He has things for us to do. we can't be wallowing in despair because we sinned.

Grace is the ACTION Jesus took to Die for us.
it's not a Condition, like you have made it to be.
Paul said, we're Saved by GRACE [the DEATH of Jesus = GRACE]

GRACE:
God's
Redemption
At
Christ's
Expense

it's a LITERAL ACT by God, not a condition to SIN!

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

No,

the owner of salvation is Gods

His death, His promise, His assurance. His gift..

so, Jesus said, if WE OBEY we have Eternal Salvation, but you say, NO!

did Jesus tell a lie, according to you?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Grace is the ACTION Jesus took to Die for us.
it's not a Condition, like you have made it to be.
Paul said, we're Saved by GRACE [the DEATH of Jesus = GRACE]

GRACE:
God's
Redemption
At
Christ's
Expense

it's a LITERAL ACT by God, not a condition to SIN!

Grace,

we need grace BECAUSE we sin.

its not that difficult..

You can't earn grace by stopping your sin..

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

so, Jesus said, if WE OBEY we have Eternal Salvation, but you say, NO!

did Jesus tell a lie, according to you?

How do we obey?

read John 3. How is one born again?

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Grace,

we need grace BECAUSE we sin.

its not that difficult..

You can't earn grace by stopping your sin..

i only need the fact that God is doing a WORK in me until He resurrects me.
i am being molded.
Grace, or the Death of Christ, provided a way to be with God.
the rest until i die, is God, shaping me and molding me.

it's not Grace, it's by God's Plan!
GRACE, enacted God's Plan for me.


en·act

1. make (a) law.

 

[Cameron143]

Grace,

we need grace BECAUSE we sin.

its not that difficult..

You can't earn grace by stopping your sin..

Neither can you stop sinning apart from grace.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

what is the ACTION Called that Jesus did upon the Cross?

to the Jew, it was known as the Mercy of God, but for the Gentile, as the Grace of God.

it is the ACT of God [Mercy/Grace].

there is no condition in the Bible anywhere known as the Condition of Mercy or Grace.

People, have bastardized God's Holy Word by taking the ACT of GOD and made it into a REALM they live in.



Satan, said to God, you have a HEDGE of Protection surrounding Job and i cannot hurt him because of it.

Satan, did not say, you have the Condition of Mercy/Grace upon Job, NO, he said, Hedge of Protection.



but, no doubt, in this Thread, many probably think Hedge of Protection is the Condition of Grace/Mercy.

False Doctrine, is the hardest thing to overcome.

thank God for YOU, this [[is not]] a Salvation Issue!

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

what is the ACTION Called that Jesus did upon the Cross?

to the Jew, it was known as the Mercy of God, but for the Gentile, as the Grace of God.

it is the ACT of God [Mercy/Grace].

there is no condition in the Bible anywhere known as the Condition of Mercy or Grace.

People, have bastardized God's Holy Word by taking the ACT of GOD and made it into a REALM they live in.



Satan, said to God, you have a HEDGE of Protection surrounding Job and i cannot hurt him because of it.

Satan, did not say, you have the Condition of Mercy/Grace upon Job, NO, he said, Hedge of Protection.



but, no doubt, in this Thread, many probably think Hedge of Protection is the Condition of Grace/Mercy.

False Doctrine, is the hardest thing to overcome.

thank God for YOU, this [[is not]] a Salvation Issue!

It is a salvation issue

there is one Gospel. Paul said if anyone teach a different gospel. let him be anathema

The cross is grace and mercy to jew or gentile. for there is no difference.

and in neither grace or mercy is works required..

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

It is a salvation issue

there is one Gospel. Paul said if anyone teach a different gospel. let him be anathema

The cross is grace and mercy to jew or gentile. for there is no difference.

and in neither grace or mercy is works required..

who said anything about working for Salvation.
Paul said, ""we are [[SAVED]] by GRACE.

in fact, Paul said, we are to ABIDE in Grace, or Salvation.

we know that God will never leave us, so Paul, is clarifying the way to Continue being Saved...we are to [[ABIDE]] in Grace.

what does Abide mean in Biblical Definition?

Abide:
1. Literally means, to 'stay' or 'remain.'

SO, to ABIDE, is for us to STAY or REMAIN.



what happens if you CHOOSE then to not STAY or REMAIN in Salvation?

what happens when you die, in this Spiritual Condition?

 

[Nehemiah6]

what happens if you CHOOSE then to not STAY or REMAIN in Salvation?

Not very likely. And God has His remedies.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Not very likely. And God has His remedies.

i Agree, but Paul explains it like it is a real possibility to not Abide/Remain/Stay.

it would not be Written, within the Holy Word of God, if it did not factually happen more than we believe it does.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

there's a REASON why Paul states: we {{must ABIDE or REMAIN}}.

someone, must have chosen not to Abide, because, WE CAN DO THAT if we choose to do that.

and if we can CHOOSE not to Remain, how can we be OSAS?

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Remember, Paul, is telling the CHRISTIAN, they MUST ABIDE

so, none of this baloney, they were never saved to begin with, can be applied here

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

who said anything about working for Salvation.
Paul said, ""we are [[SAVED]] by GRACE.

in fact, Paul said, we are to ABIDE in Grace, or Salvation.

we know that God will never leave us, so Paul, is clarifying the way to Continue being Saved...we are to [[ABIDE]] in Grace.

what does Abide mean in Biblical Definition?

Abide:
1. Literally means, to 'stay' or 'remain.'

SO, to ABIDE, is for us to STAY or REMAIN.



what happens if you CHOOSE then to not STAY or REMAIN in Salvation?

what happens when you die, in this Spiritual Condition?

See, you have to work hard to stay and remain or you rill lose salvation.

works salvation 101

God keeps us, we can;t keep ourself.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Remember, Paul, is telling the CHRISTIAN, they MUST ABIDE

so, none of this baloney, they were never saved to begin with, can be applied here

Eternal life is eternal life

When God says we will never die, he means it,

Non of this balogny that eternal life is conditional. And that never dying means we might never die

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

when i see the big picture here, Paul, must have observed, People getting Saved, and then in time no longer Abiding.

so, if you Choose to not Remain, how are you OSAS?