Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

[Jimbone]

Romans 10:17
New King James Version
17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

The comes by, in essence means ACTIVATED. It comes out from the INSIDE.
Hearing the Gospel activates the faith already in you, placed there by God.

“comes”

◄ 1537. ek or ex ►

Strong's Concordance​

ek or ex: from, from out of

Original Word: ἐκ, ἐξ
Part of Speech: Preposition
Transliteration: ek or ex
Phonetic Spelling: (ek)
Definition: from, from out of
Usage: from out, out from among, from, suggesting from the interior outwards.

OUR part is to ADD to our faith the following.

So the faith is ALREADY there. We don’t obtain it. God gifted it to us. Just as Ephesians. 2 tells us.
​

2 Peter 1:5-8 KJVAnd beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; and to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; and to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

​

Amen. I honestly do not understand how they don't get it, other than if they've never felt the real power of our God. It's almost like they believe that God justifies us, but sanctification is a burden that is all up to us, and if we don't bring ourselves into line and obey the law, then the deal is void. And are addiment about claiming that work for themselves, not realizing at all how they are claiming the credit that ONLY belongs to Jesus.

I can only see this kind of false teaching coming from someone who doesn't know the real power of our King. I'm not making any accusations or pretending that any of us can KNOW the salvation status of another, outside of the evidence they give us of course. I also understand why and how they can reach the conclusion that they do, because as a newer Christian I too believed this was what those verses were saying. I didn't understand how we "choose" to come to Jesus, are born again in truth, and then just lose our free will? That did not make sense at all to me. I'd always say it like this, "I could never see how anyone could ever walk away from Him, I could never turn from Him, but we have to still have free will right? I don't see Him taking that from us."
This was when I was still under the false idea that we "choose" Him. We do not, He draws us and then gifts us repentance. I then thought harder about my own personal salvation experience while pondering this subject.

When I hit my knees in defeat, at that point I thought I was already saved. I responded to the call at church and went up front to repeat the prayer. Even felt like I meant it. I was declared saved by the pastor there and even went to be baptized for good measure. For 5 years called myself a Christian, went to church most Sundays, wore a cross and everything, yet did not know Him. At this point I would have thought I needed to obey better, yet never did because my power to refrain from sin wasn't existent. However once life kicked into overdrive and I lost full use of my right arm in a motorcycle accident and I realized my real power. The realization that I was in a position that I could do nothing about. The doctors couldn't help me, my family couldn't help me, the false God I thought I knew at the time couldn't help me, and I was just stuck here in misery with no hope. After 2 solid years of this and having uncontrollable suicidal thoughts ever 5 minutes, every single day of it, I hit my knees broken. At 33 years old I hit my knees and I didn't call "God I'm ready, I give my heart to you", I didn't call Jesus name either. I thought I knew what that "Christian thing" was and it didn't help. No when I hit my knees I cried out "I can't do this anymore, I can't do this anymore, I can't do this anymore, world you win, I lose, and I quit!"

I woke up the next day a new man, not even realizing until lunch that next day that I hadn't thought about killing myself at all that day! In that moment I only knew 2 things. #1 whatever this was it was God. #2 Jesus is His Son. From there He lead me strait to John and by chapter 3 I knew I'd been born again.

I like testifying and everything, but my point here with sharing this is to point out that I didn't decide anything at all to "make" this happen. Yes I hit my knees in repentance seeing in truth how futile "I" made my life at that point and decided I was done with it, but it was all a gift. I had no clue God was real and Jesus wasn't just some "good ol' historical dude". It transformed me overnight and made my heart desire Him and WANT to please Him with my life. I don't obey in fear of losing salvation, I obey because He made my heart desire to. That's why He gets ALL glory for every bit of it. This also seems to be the key disconnect in this whole conversation. They are honestly telling me I am a son of the devil and not saved all while completely trying to claim credit for Gods work, and don't realize they're selling a works based religion. I'm done trying to reason with the arrogantly unreasonable, but they're good enough at patting each other on the back to not get lonely. Thanks for your words and inspiring me to share this.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

That is not even the issue. The issue is "If you believe on the Lord Jesus Christ you will be saved". That's what Jesus said, so the issue for you is do you believe Him? Everything else comes later. And as you can see, Roger wants to twist everything to fit his false theology. It is amazing how man-made doctrines have precedence over Scripture.

i agree that "just Believing" is the most important Step into receiving Salvation before the Commands of Christ come into play. and that [all] human beings have to face and give account to why they Rejected this Step.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

You fail to understand that a (true) Christian will do just that..

i don't fail to see that or anything else at all. i am merely showing how specific Jesus' [[CAUSES and EFFECTS]] are. of course, someone who KEEPS CHOOSING TO REMAIN/ABIDE in God, this is merely how it is and how we live life according to. but for someone who thinks Grace + a list of other Conditions ,come into factor...even if....you do CHOOSE to disobey the Commands of Christ, they format idealism's like OSAS.

well, that is [[[ONLY TRUE]]] if you REMAIN/ABIDE in Christ.

but if you live like you have this mythical magical Grace, you will SIN, and believe all is well because my False Doctrine assures me. but the Bible, nor did Jesus, Peter, Paul, John, or anyone else say what this Doctrine claims.

how does a Doctrine work, when it does not match what is Written in the Holy Word of God?

are people really basing their Salvation on the assumption, their Pastor, was correct?

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Romans 10:17
New King James Version
17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

The comes by, in essence means ACTIVATED. It comes out from the INSIDE.
Hearing the Gospel activates the faith already in you, placed there by God.

“comes”

◄ 1537. ek or ex ►

Strong's Concordance​

ek or ex: from, from out of

Original Word: ἐκ, ἐξ
Part of Speech: Preposition
Transliteration: ek or ex
Phonetic Spelling: (ek)
Definition: from, from out of
Usage: from out, out from among, from, suggesting from the interior outwards.

OUR part is to ADD to our faith the following.

So the faith is ALREADY there. We don’t obtain it. God gifted it to us. Just as Ephesians. 2 tells us.
​

2 Peter 1:5-8 KJVAnd beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; and to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; and to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

​

i like how you completely IGNORE the fact that the Verses BEFORE YOUR VERSE shows people do HEAR the Message and still are able to Reject it, unlike this idea only regenerated people can hear:

16. But not all have submitted to the message of The Gospel, as Isaiah said, "My Lord, who believes our report?"

^
NOTICE, Jesus says, it is called SUBMITTING, just like I have called it and had backlash.

how do you SUBMIT?

by CHOICE!

which is by FREE WILL!

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

people and their 1 single cherry picked Verse Doctrines make me want to puke!!

typical disciples of Calvin!

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

according to Jesus, anyone can HEAR the Gospel and Reject the Gospel. and if they ACCEPT the Gospel, they will SUBMIT!!

so much for half of the False Baptist Doctrines i grew up with.

Thank GOD, as i dump em in the TRASH!

 

[Cameron143]

according to Jesus, anyone can HEAR the Gospel and Reject the Gospel. and if they ACCEPT the Gospel, they will SUBMIT!!

so much for half of the False Baptist Doctrines i grew up with.

Thank GOD, as i dump em in the TRASH!

Not according to Isaiah 6 and Matthew 13. How do you understand these passages?

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Not according to Isaiah 6 and Matthew 13. How do you understand these passages?

you think Isaiah outranks the Words of Jesus?

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

you mean, Verse 9: 9 And He said: 'Go, and tell this people: hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not...?

Look at what Israel is doing in the previous Chapters. this is the Answer to why God confused them in Chapter 6

Verse 10 can be added but i think you might be thinking Verse 11

10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they, seeing with their eyes, and hearing with their ears, and understanding with their heart, return, and be healed.'

11 Then said I: 'Lord, how long?' And He answered: 'Until cities be waste without inhabitant, and houses without man, and the land become utterly waste,

 

[Jimbone]

according to Jesus, anyone can HEAR the Gospel and Reject the Gospel. and if they ACCEPT the Gospel, they will SUBMIT!!

so much for half of the False Baptist Doctrines i grew up with.

Thank GOD, as i dump em in the TRASH!

You are an angry man and do not represent Jesus well at all. Not even sure what you mean here, but the way you communicate with others is disgraceful.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

You are an angry man and do not represent Jesus well at all. Not even sure what you mean here, but the way you communicate with others is disgraceful.

i am furious towards False Doctrine that have swindled souls since Calvin!

if you think peeps are predestined, then there's no reason to obey Matthew 28 and Go Preach and make Disciples.

when i was Southern Baptist, Pastor, encouraged more babies to be born.

why?

no one else was on the street sinning and saying, hey, i want to be a Baptist + the Baptist, were not out witnessing for people to be Saved, because why should they, God [to them] already CHOSE who goes where and it represents His Glory!!

so, we needed to be baby factories and most Baptist Churches, to this VERY DAY, are majority families and little bit visitors who magically stay.

That is a Horrible God, and you push that God onto us here daily.

and you say, i am ANGRY?

 

[Cameron143]

you think Isaiah outranks the Words of Jesus?

I think all scripture is equally the word of God. It is always God speaking. It is consistent from beginning to end. But if you place a higher value on the red letter words, Matthew 13 is Jesus speaking.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

I think all scripture is equally the word of God. It is always God speaking. It is consistent from beginning to end. But if you place a higher value on the red letter words, Matthew 13 is Jesus speaking.

but the Gospel being heard and then rejected is nowhere in same definition as speaking a Parable that only specific Believers understand.

the Gospel is for EVERYONE!
the Parable is only for the Believer, who, ""already"" has CHOSEN to SUBMIT, by Free Will, to the Gospel and to Christ!

when Jesus Commanded, GO, Preach and make Disciples...there's no clause that only go to these people. no, it's open for ALL.

and ALL will hear the Gospel, and the Majority will Reject it! but they will hear it...

 

[Cameron143]

but the Gospel being heard and then rejected is nowhere in same definition as speaking a Parable that only specific Believers understand.

the Gospel is for EVERYONE!
the Parable is only for the Believer, who, ""already"" has CHOSEN to SUBMIT, by Free Will, to the Gospel and to Christ!

when Jesus Commanded, GO, Preach and make Disciples...there's no clause that only go to these people. no, it's open for ALL.

and ALL will hear the Gospel, and the Majority will Reject it! but they will hear it...

What about the words...it is given to you to understand...?

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

What about the words...it is given to you to understand...?

for years, many people describe how God works through you and struggled to make it simple enough to understand.

i've generally been able to break it down and i know i am not the only one.

you see a homeless person
you get an immediate thought, buy food and give to them.
now, it looks like you are buying food and giving it to the homeless person.
in reality, God, is feeding that homeless person, but He used you to do it.

it's the same example in John 14: Jesus said, the Father, lives inside me doing the works.
the Holy Spirit, God, lives inside me doing the works.

see, how easy it is to understand?
God's Word is not complicated.

but, if you cannot break it down, then God, did not intend for you to be someone to explain. [but i know you break things down very well]


so, i think all people can understand, when a sincere man of God, shares the Gospel in a way that is not complicated, and gets the full meaning before listeners choose to accept/reject.

 

[Cameron143]

What about the words...it is given to you to understand...?

It actually say...given to know, not given to understand. Sorry. And the implication is that if it were given to the others, they would be converted.

 

[Cameron143]

for years, many people describe how God works through you and struggled to make it simple enough to understand.

i've generally been able to break it down and i know i am not the only one.

you see a homeless person
you get an immediate thought, buy food and give to them.
now, it looks like you are buying food and giving it to the homeless person.
in reality, God, is feeding that homeless person, but He used you to do it.

it's the same example in John 14: Jesus said, the Father, lives inside me doing the works.
the Holy Spirit, God, lives inside me doing the works.

see, how easy it is to understand?
God's Word is not complicated.

but, if you cannot break it down, then God, did not intend for you to be someone to explain. [but i know you break things down very well]


so, i think all people can understand, when a sincere man of God, shares the Gospel in a way that is not complicated, and gets the full meaning before choosing to accept/reject.

I do agree that the gospel is very simple. The outworking of it in people's lives is a little less clear. The term conversion is used in the passage. That's because salvation is a transformation. Which parts God accomplishes and to what degree is what is always the debate.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

It actually say...given to know, not given to understand. Sorry. And the implication is that if it were given to the others, they would be converted.

i've had people reject me to my face.
see them few months later at some multi-church function, and they ended up giving their life to God a couple weeks later.

also had people that rejected me and when they see me do all things possible to avoid me.

it is what it is.

out of the 500 People, who WITNESSED the Ascension of Christ, hundred thousands had already rejected Jesus to His face. [[and He could explain, speak/teach the Gospel, better than anyone of us]] .. and they still Rejected Him and the Gospel.

it is what it is.

People, CHOOSE, and we can only pray for God to intervene at that point.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

I do agree that the gospel is very simple. The outworking of it in people's lives is a little less clear. The term conversion is used in the passage. That's because salvation is a transformation. Which parts God accomplishes and to what degree is what is always the debate.

Amen!

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

God, only "partially" blinded the Jews.
the Gentiles, however, their eyes are WIDE OPEN. and they Reject Jesus thousands to 1 versus the partially blinded Jew!

it is what it is!