I don't know or care "what if", only what's true. Yes, "Adam's sin is reckoned to us ", if that's the way you put it. But guess what, there's good news. No matter what we have to be born again. If our parents are then we are blessed to have teachers, but that guarantees nothing. Wow, you don't even get original sin? Are you even born again? Honest question, not an insult or accusation. I'm really asking you.
Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked
- Thread starter ResidentAlien
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Jesus said….
Matthew 25:14,21 KJV
For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.
[21] His lord said unto him,
Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been
faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
Matthew 25:14,21 KJV
For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.
[21] His lord said unto him,
Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been
faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
Well at least I'm in good company. Adam was our representative. As such, what happened to him or what he did is true of us all. Christ, too, is our representative if we are Christians. What is true of Him is true for us.
Christ has perfect righteousness. In Him we do also. Adam fell as a result of sin. We all came into the world in a fallen estate.
We know this wasn't because we sinned or our parents sinned, but because we are in Adam. This occurred before we sinned. How you want to phrase it is immaterial to me. We got something from Christ when we were placed in Him. We got something from Adam as a result of being placed in him.
Christ has perfect righteousness. In Him we do also. Adam fell as a result of sin. We all came into the world in a fallen estate.
We know this wasn't because we sinned or our parents sinned, but because we are in Adam. This occurred before we sinned. How you want to phrase it is immaterial to me. We got something from Christ when we were placed in Him. We got something from Adam as a result of being placed in him.
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That's hilarious!
It's true, calvinists make stuff up as they go along and the engage heavily in double speak just like the liberals do as they attempt to gaslight everybody
Well the calvinists can fool some of the people some of the time... but those that know God's Word they cannot deceive!
And of course the calvinists ignore scriptures that teach us man has the responsibility to abide IN Christ which is what Jesus taught in John 15
The calvinists have been deceived in to believing God did not give man free will which is why calvinists... just like islam... don't know if they are saved or not because they aren't sure if they are one of the "elect" ones due to their false belief of limited atonement.
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Salvation is... conditional, according to Jesus!
John 15:1,2
I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. John 15:5 IF A MAN ABIDE NOT IN ME, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
*** WHO... is to do the abiding according to Jesus???? That’s right, WE are!
John 15:4,5
Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
*** WHO... is to do the abiding according to Jesus???? That’s right, WE are!
John 15:8-10
Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
HOW are we to abide in Christ, thru our own strength and ability???
NO... thru the Lord Who strengthens us!
Philippians 4:13
I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.
John 15:1,2
I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. John 15:5 IF A MAN ABIDE NOT IN ME, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
*** WHO... is to do the abiding according to Jesus???? That’s right, WE are!
John 15:4,5
Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
*** WHO... is to do the abiding according to Jesus???? That’s right, WE are!
John 15:8-10
Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
HOW are we to abide in Christ, thru our own strength and ability???
NO... thru the Lord Who strengthens us!
Philippians 4:13
I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.
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If sin is such because of the violation of earthly law (not spiritual law), then that sin, by definition, must also be earthly or temporal sin coming as a result of earthly law. However, the sin of eternal consequence is not of the violation of earthly law, but of spiritual law, and that law being the law of Christ - meaning that the violation of temporal law does not, of itself, bring eternal judgment, nor the keeping of it, salvation, but the violation of spiritual law does which violation is of Christ. We all, even the most pious and dedicated of us, violate temporal law, but it is violation of the law of Christ that brings judgement. It is only by God that for those whom He had chosen to salvation do not commit spiritual sin after salvation, and that salvation, once imparted to them, is theirs eternally.
By the way, in the context I used it, temporal meant of worldly religious law - OT law specifically (non-spiritual law). Perhaps it would have been better for clarity's and consistency's sake, for me to have used the word "carnal" instead of "temporal", but as far as I could see, there's actually not too much difference between the two, and didn't think using it as an attempt to be descriptive, would cause a problem. However, if it is easier for you to recognize and comprehend, in the future, I will use carnal instead.
So hopefully, the below will answer your question as to where it is found in the Bible.
[Heb 9:10 KJV]
10 [Which stood] only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed [on them] until the time of reformation.
Heb 7:11-12, 16, 18-19 KJV]
11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need [was there] that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. ...
16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life. ...
18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope [did]; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
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God's Word instructs us to obey man's laws...
Romans 13:1
Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
1 Peter 2:13
Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;
The only exception is like in the Book of Acts they told some of the Apostles to not teach in Jesus' Name... we do not obey that directive because it is in direct opposition to God';s Word.
So, it actually is a sin to disobey the laws of man and that going on our eternal record unless we repent, ask for forgiveness, and quit being disobedient.
Romans 13:1
Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
1 Peter 2:13
Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;
The only exception is like in the Book of Acts they told some of the Apostles to not teach in Jesus' Name... we do not obey that directive because it is in direct opposition to God';s Word.
So, it actually is a sin to disobey the laws of man and that going on our eternal record unless we repent, ask for forgiveness, and quit being disobedient.
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This guy gives a great answer to the LOSAS (losers of Savior and Salvation) crowd’s insistence that Eternal Security teaches you can sin all you want:
https://www.facebook.com/reel/1395347544717803?fs=e&s=TIeQ9V&mibextid=1slE9G
https://www.facebook.com/reel/1395347544717803?fs=e&s=TIeQ9V&mibextid=1slE9G
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See post #191 from the link below:
The Glasgow razor boy and eternal security - Christian Chat Rooms & Forums
The Glasgow razor boy and eternal security - Christian Chat Rooms & Forums
Still waiting for the scripture that teaches us about “temporal” sins.
So far you have not.
Maybe you could post a list of “temporal” sins for us.
Do you believe lying is a temporal sin?
But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8
JLB
So far you have not.
Maybe you could post a list of “temporal” sins for us.
Do you believe lying is a temporal sin?
But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8
JLB
If a child of God commits a sin, they can confess their sin and be forgiven and cleansed.
If they choose not to confess they sin and be cleansed, then they will have suffer the consequences of their sin.
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:8-9
JLB
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Sure. All sins that are not against Christ as Saviour- God's Annointed - those not against God's law are carnal (temporal) sins - they are violation of man's law - violations that we all commit. Conversely, those who reject Christ as Saviour (Saviour as in the Saviour in all ways), thereby trodden underfoot the Son of God, which sin is spiritual sin, and the penalty of which is to suffer God's eternal judgment.
That is a very significant and important distinction, and you should probably try to come to grips with and understand it.
[Heb 10:28- 29 KJV]
28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
The above pertains to those who are not forgiven through Christ. Apparently, you are devoid of all understanding of the Gospel.
So, I guess what you're actually saying by the above, is that even though you claim to supposedly be a Christian, that you don't truly believe/trust in Christ - believe that He is really the Saviour and that He forgives all of the sins of those whom He saves, but instead, you think that we are really saved by what we do or don't do, rather than by Christ? Is that correct? Notice below, that for those He had chosen to salvation, their sins were purged ALREADY.
[Heb 1:3 KJV] 3 Who being the brightness of [his] glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
That is a very significant and important distinction, and you should probably try to come to grips with and understand it.
[Heb 10:28- 29 KJV]
28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
The above pertains to those who are not forgiven through Christ. Apparently, you are devoid of all understanding of the Gospel.
So, I guess what you're actually saying by the above, is that even though you claim to supposedly be a Christian, that you don't truly believe/trust in Christ - believe that He is really the Saviour and that He forgives all of the sins of those whom He saves, but instead, you think that we are really saved by what we do or don't do, rather than by Christ? Is that correct? Notice below, that for those He had chosen to salvation, their sins were purged ALREADY.
[Heb 1:3 KJV] 3 Who being the brightness of [his] glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
Notice that - "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" (1 John 1:9) is in contrast to - If we say that we have no sin, (present tense) we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us (1 John 1:8) and - If we say that we have not sinned, (past tense) we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. (1 John 1:10)
You seem to misunderstand verse 9 to mean that we "must confess each and every sin that we commit as we commit them" (keep a specific inventory of every sin) as an "additional requirement" to "remain cleansed" and "if we forget a sin, we are toast!" Who could actually write an exhaustive list of every sin they have ever committed or ever will commit? Sin is not only missing the mark by what we do but also what we fail to do. (James 4:17)
Believers "confess" (Greek - homologeó) speak the same/acknowledge/agree with God's perspective about their sins and have a settled recognition and ongoing acknowledgment that one is a sinner in need of cleansing and forgiveness in contrast with saying that we have no sin or that we have not sinned. (1 John 1:8-10)
You seem to misunderstand verse 9 to mean that we "must confess each and every sin that we commit as we commit them" (keep a specific inventory of every sin) as an "additional requirement" to "remain cleansed" and "if we forget a sin, we are toast!" Who could actually write an exhaustive list of every sin they have ever committed or ever will commit? Sin is not only missing the mark by what we do but also what we fail to do. (James 4:17)
Believers "confess" (Greek - homologeó) speak the same/acknowledge/agree with God's perspective about their sins and have a settled recognition and ongoing acknowledgment that one is a sinner in need of cleansing and forgiveness in contrast with saying that we have no sin or that we have not sinned. (1 John 1:8-10)
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Please post a list of sins that you claim are “temporal” (whatever that means) such as lying, stealing, adultery, coveting, idolatry, and so forth.
We would like to see what sins you believe are “temporal”.
Here are a few sins that we see will send the violator to the lake of fire:
But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8
JPT